Data Lost [Feb 26, 2017] Squally's Sunday Skirmishes - Halo 5 (XONE)

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KILLtrOTTcity

Proficient
Feb 16, 2013
85
37
23
Texas
Crap I may not be able to show up tonight, if I dont show up you can push my map towards the back of the lobby and if I don't show you don't have to test my map, wont be fair to others.If you do decide to test it, please make sure you use the current version which should be at the top of my bookmarks right now. It's much improved over the version you have currently. I just need to tweak spawns a bit but I like where my map is going, atleast it seemed to play really well in the test I did in Infinuts lobby. Hopefully I can make it, I've been wanting to test it for a while to get feedback.
 

CDX34

Master
Mar 23, 2015
62
24
108
Once again, I don't have a ready map, but I'll be there should the lobby be less than 16 players.
GT: SonicWolf CD
 

CDX34

Master
Mar 23, 2015
62
24
108
Hangout - I have no idea what (if anything) was different about this map since I last played it, so there's nothing for Me to say. As a general opinion though, I like the map.

Imperial - Did not play. I was only able spectate the match, so I'll hold any of My thoughts for another time.

Echoes - Maybe it's just Me, but I feel like the mancannons at the front of either base go effectively nowhere. I also noticed the teleporter exit has changed again from the last time I played this map, though I didn't use it this time around, so I don't know how well it works.

Kingfisher - I'm honestly not sure what to think about this map. On one hand, I don't have anything bad to say about it, on the other, I don't have any good notes either. I know that's not really feedback, and I highly doubt it's helpful information, but that's really all I can say. Sorry.

Fracture - The problem I see with both the matchmaking version, and the updated version played last night, is that there doesn't seem to be any (or at least enough) away spawns. And I don't mean flag-away spawns, I mean spawns placed closer to the center of the map for a given team to spawn at should their main spawn area be occupied by enemies. This results in a beginning push from both sides, and whoever wins gets to spawn camp the losers, with the only way of preventing this being both teams completely trading kills in said push. Don't get Me wrong, I greatly enjoy playing on this map, but that's a serious issue. You also mentioned visual changes to the map, but for both matches I spent most of the time either looking through a sniper scope, or trying not to die, so I didn't notice.

Artemis - I'm not sure I can say anything on this map. I mean, it's done right? We just played it 'cause we needed something to play at the moment? Correct Me if I'm wrong, and sorry if I am, but I'm pretty sure this is the same version I played on last time.

Absolute Zero - What, uh, what even is this map? Like, I'm legitimately confused by it. There's the Incineration Cannon locked behind a switch that you have no idea is even connected to that, which is interesting, but annoying, The weird ramp from the middle of the map up to the Overshield spawn, that's also connected to the switch, which is worse because it can be manipulated to block said switch. The low ceiling tunnels. The visual filter. And the framrate drops. Not to mention the map itself is pretty big. I like the mancannon going through the moving pistons though.

Eradicate - The map's significantly smaller than last time, I'll give you that, but it's still rather large. I think more movement options, better cover and only a small bit of further downscaling will solve this.
 

KILLtrOTTcity

Proficient
Feb 16, 2013
85
37
23
Texas
I couldn't join till late so my feedback is limited to only the 2 maps I played plus Echoes since scoped out the updated version in Forge and I am a fan of that map.

Absolute Zero -
Obviously the first glaring issue with this map was the significant framerate drops, Im not sure if its due to all the water implementation with the geometry or if it is because of the heavy constant scripting, maybe a bit of both. I do love maps that utilize a lot of water and your scripting in the middle is pretty cool, I just wonder if they will ever add any maps into MM that utilize significant scripting such as switches or moving geometry.Deadlock is the only one I can think of in mm that has such scripting and thats because the original Standoff had that feature.

Speaking of scripting your Inceneration cannon behind the scripted door confused almost everyone I think because the switch was too far away from where the weapon is placed and just not obvious enough for players to figure out especially in the middle of a heated battle.
I like the rocket hogs on this map and they were a good choice because I think the regular hogs couldn't be able to pick off players who stay in the upper levels.Speaking of that I noticed some players getting on top of the archways on the edges of the map near the ceiling which is obviously not a good thing and could promote camping so a soft kill atleast is needed up there.
One other slight issue with the map is those low ceiling tunnels; I think those are just awkward for gameplay and can easily be fixed.Also a few elevation changes on the bottom level would be nice but ofcourse you dont want them too effect the flow and driveability of the vehicles too much.
One more minor and easily fixable thing is some of your spawns were confusing, such as the ones facing the steep incline towards the wall, really disorients players.All spawns should face either towards the enemy base or the middle sections of the map and should have a little los and not just have you stare at a wall or incline at spawn.
That's all I can think of for now, hopefully further playtests can tell me more about your map.

Fracture -
This map is obviously pretty polished and I love the overall feel and theme throughout the map. I didnt notice many changes I can think of but that burning Space Suit guy in the chamber is a pretty cool new aesthetic.
I dont know why but for some reason I think your map might make for a really fun infection map as well as BTB.Maybe try it out when that gametype rolls around, just sayin! :)
Also I noticed that when you were running the flag you Ground Pounded to the bottom bridge with the flag which is a sweet and sneaky option to run the flag through, I really have to try that out in MM!
Overall I like all the weapon placement and I only played this twice so far in MM but it was enjoyable. Very solid map but that's not to say its perfect, I dont know if any map is for that matter, so I do have a couple concerns/ minor gripes if you will.
1) The Mantis like you said acts as a deterrent for players coming through especially through the tunnels but they kind of make the hog feel useless and like going through the tunnel is just a death trap dead end especially when Mantis is operating but I guess thats kind of what you wanted and the whole goal is to take out the mantis first and then in between its respawn, utilize the hog to make flag runs and such so I'm ok with that I suppose. Afterall the mid camo can provide a good option for sneaking up on a pesky defending Mantis.
2) The only other problem I can think of is the snowy ledges near the tunnel entrances, in MM I already seen a couple people abusing that area with the sniper due to its tremendous los looking around either side of that icy pillar and whats worse is you can even get on top of the pillar for extra added protection and nuisance to the enemy team.If the other team is skilled and coordinated I can see the Mantis and Sniper combo in that area being a near impenetrable wall in that area.But luckily there are other options to attack the base besides through the tunnel.

Echoes- Didn't playtest this time but looked the new version over in Forge and it seems like you made some great changes, even though I was already a fan of your original version.
I love the new middle structure and it makes the whole mid area feel new and fresh.Also I really like the teleporter chamber area that has the teleporter that cuts the map in half.That room itself has a great feel to it and feels like a real Forerunner style room, very solid forging.Having said that I can tell with all your great changes to the middle areas that you had to make sacrifices such as roofs of the bases, they dont feel as epic without the Foreunner Spire type roofs you had before, but ofcourse gameplay should always come before aesthetics so you still made a good choice.
Also the banshee spawn structure looks more epic and Forerunner now.I think your map is very solid and even though some might still say its too large or too open but I disagree, not every map needs to have cover at every square inch and be so tightly constructed and it is refreshing for me to see some maps that give the vehicles atleast a decent chance to be and feel powerful.Remember Standoff; Sandtrap, Rats nest, Avalanche?
Lots of long los areas vehicles were an absolute blast but good coordinated teamwork could also counter them, now a days it seems that when a vehicle manages to get more than a few kills in a row some people just assume that its overpowered and there needs to be more cover even though thats not always the case,( for crying out loud the vehicles are almost like paper compared to Halo 3 Vehicles, not too hard to counter). You have pretty nice elevation changes and to me just the right amount of cover but not so much that it makes the vehicles obsolete.
The only thing I can think of is as CDX said some of the mancannons kind of feel like they dont take you effectively anywhere, I guess maybe they shave a few seconds off but not enough to make you feel like its really worth taking them, think Valhalla, now those mancannons you know are worth taking.
But keep up the good work and if I were you I wouldn't change much at this point unless you can afford to bring back the Forerunner Spire look of the bases.If it were up to me I would love to have a map just like this replace Basin which is pretty stale now imo.
 
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Squally DaBeanz

Big Jerk
Jan 9, 2013
342
217
126
MartianMallCop - Hangout
Well, since you were only getting footage and the map is technically done, I'm just gonna skip this one.

Foxy Papa Smurf - Imperial
This was a strange one. The pseudo-symmetrical nature of it is interesting, and I like the idea of the map. however, there are a lot of things holding it back. For starters, the base designs feel very convoluted and are very confusing off of spawn. The multiple levels become a chore to traverse, and the linear nature of the entrances and routes inside make the bases too easy to camp and leave something to be desired for attackers. Blue base suffered from these problems to a greater degree than red base. Spawning in an enclosed room with no view of the rest of the map led to many of us struggling to find a way out. The high walls of the bottom level, the covered ramp out, and the monochromatic visuals made blue base very disorienting and difficult to navigate. The middle of the map had similar problems with navigation. The entire top level is a giant flat death trap that a single sniper can effectively lock down single-handedly. The middle structure was an awkward playspace as it was very difficult to reach from the outside and approaching from the sewers relied on a gimmick. Once inside, however, it became too easy to camp. The flanks adjacent to either base are far too linear and hard to find. Nothing about the broader design of the map suggests that these routes even exist, and the routes themselves lead to boring and repetitive gameplay. The sewers in particular are a problem as they essentially end in two dead ends and rely too much on awkward lazy cover.

The Grim Dealer - Echoes
This map is coming along nicely, and it's been a pleasure to see it grow over the course of these lobbies. Most of the map feels pretty good at this point. My only major complaint is still with the very center of the map. The almost bunker style of the main structure can only be accessed by the high side of the map, which is already difficult to approach and control. This structure only furthers a dominant teams power in the middle. I would consider reversing the idea of the building, making it accessible from the lower side of the map so it can be used to attack the high ground and counter the Spartan Laser structure. The open fields between these two structures feel a tad too large for infantry to be of any use in. There were many times I found myself trying to cross the map through here, only to immediately get gunned down from multiple sightlines with no way to escape. I think if you were to bring the Spartan Laser structure closer to the middle more, it would effectively shrink these fields. I have some ideas on logistics, and I think I could help you make it work. Message me on XBL if you want to go through the specifics in forge.

Chronmeister - Kingfisher
This is definitely one of the more unique BTB designs I've seen lately, and it's a refreshing change of pace. The map has a lot of potential, it just needs to go through more testing and refining, as with any new map. As I told you the other day, my biggest problem with this map is some of the scaling. There are a lot of long open sightlines, many of which are from the top looking down. The combination of these dominant sightlines with the sometimes maze-like lower pathways leads to very top heavy gameplay. At the same time, however, many of the areas feel too closed off for vehicles. Finding the right balance between these two gameplay needs is going to be a matter of trial and error through more testing. Overall, the idea of the map feels really good, and it's off to a good start. Hopefully I will be able to point out more specific suggestions as we play it more.

Psycho Duck - Artemis
Well.... It's Artemis. And I love it. This map is basically finished, so I don't know what else I could say at this point :p

Qrrbrbirbei - Absolute Zero
This is undoubtedly the strangest map we came across in the lobby, and I'm not really sure what the design goals were. The map felt like a big enclosed box with a lot of random geometry and moving parts. Despite some height variation, the map played very flat, and I had zero incentive to leave my "base" (I think it was a base). The moving geometry in the map feels very gimmicky, as it doesn't do anything to actually impact gameplay other than throwing people for a loop for a second. The small spaces under each base also feel completely unnecessary and are awkward to move through. I think you need to really sit back and think about what it is you want this map to accomplish. Right now, it feels very unfocused in terms of gameplay, and rather is just an environment to show off some interesting scripting gimmicks.

OTT2OWN - Eradicate
While I can definitely notice the change in scale, this map still feels far too large and open. The fact that the map is essentially a giant flat ring leads to fairly boring gameplay, and the overly simplistic geometry throughout creates an environment where vehicles become the only logical option. Infantry play is slow and tedious, while vehicle play is simple and repetitive. Try adding some thicker geometry and have both infantry and vehicles move up and down in elevations through more interesting structures instead of wide open streets. The bases should be the main focus on these changes, as they are one of the weaker parts of the map right now.
 
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IMAROLLINGSTONE

Proficient
Jun 25, 2013
51
12
38
Okay. I do not understand why my map was not tested. One, I was online. Two, I submitted days ahead of time. Was it because I was not in the lobby?
 

Squally DaBeanz

Big Jerk
Jan 9, 2013
342
217
126
Okay. I do not understand why my map was not tested. One, I was online. Two, I submitted days ahead of time. Was it because I was not in the lobby?
Ya, it is. I don't recall you being online (maybe you were ghosting?), but if you were, I'm sure I invited you along with everyone else on my friends list during the lobby. I'm sorry your map didn't get played, and I don't mean to sound rude by requesting people show up to have their maps tested. It's just that I have to draw a line somewhere for how these lobbies are run for the sake of convenience, maintaining the flow of the lobby, and courtesy to others. I'll be sure to put in an extra effort to get you in this week, I promise :)
 

IMAROLLINGSTONE

Proficient
Jun 25, 2013
51
12
38
Ya, it is. I don't recall you being online (maybe you were ghosting?), but if you were, I'm sure I invited you along with everyone else on my friends list during the lobby. I'm sorry your map didn't get played, and I don't mean to sound rude by requesting people show up to have their maps tested. It's just that I have to draw a line somewhere for how these lobbies are run for the sake of convenience, maintaining the flow of the lobby, and courtesy to others. I'll be sure to put in an extra effort to get you in this week, I promise :)
Okay. I appreciate your response but I am lost when you say one has to be in the lobby. Someone above missed it completely and still got a test. But if you run your lobbies as you say, I respect that decision. And no, I did not ghost: I rarely do.
 

Squally DaBeanz

Big Jerk
Jan 9, 2013
342
217
126
Okay. I appreciate your response but I am lost when you say one has to be in the lobby. Someone above missed it completely and still got a test. But if you run your lobbies as you say, I respect that decision. And no, I did not ghost: I rarely do.
The map was brought in by proxy. I guess I should make a more clearly defined line there. So from now on, if anyone absolutely cannot make it to the lobby, arrangements need to be made so that a friend can bring the map to the lobby instead and be able to relay any information, observations, or feedback from the lobby directly to the author. These feedback threads will still occur, but many people end up not posting here and text can only tell so much about a gameplay experience. In addition, I will try to start creating videos of the lobbies sometime in the future as an additional source of information for the map authors signing up.
 
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Apr 23, 2013
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CTF on Echoes, please. I changed the Banshee spawn a lot and tweaked a few more things around the map, removing the teleporters being one of them.

I liked your idea about rotating the middle structure to face the Laser spawn, but I decided to get some additional testing before making a big change like that.
 
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