Halo Why do you vote Infinity Slayer?

[Skyward Shoe]

Your missing my point, it's mostly my fault. I'm a terrible communicator in general.

Not denying anything you said at all, and 10 years ago I probably would have posted something similar. But with more life experiences you will eventually learn to put your time and passion into something more meaningful in life. It's a video game, don't let it upset you, no matter how much you love it. You really "should" be playing it to have fun (IN MY OPINION) not post on forums about how it used to be better or it's not balanced or even if you think it's perfect.

Just go enjoy it. That's all.

I certainly think I should put a significant part of my time and passion into discussing gaming related topics, seeing as I'm currently en route to becoming a game designer myself. To say that this is something not worth discussing is to say that there is no legitimacy to discussing games at all, and please do not be one of those people who thinks games are nothing but a source of entertainment and who actively tries to stop discussion about them. I'm not calling you out as being that, but it seems to me that that's where this is headed. Correct me if I'm wrong. Of course this isn't all I put my time and passion into, nor is it all any sane person would put this into, but it's certainly something important enough to be worth discussing. People dedicate themselves to things of equal or lesser value, just look at the number of people for whom American Football is the essence of life. Telling people to not discuss that would get you lynched (metaphorical speaking) in some parts of the world.

We absolutely enjoy playing the game, but there is a lot more to it than that, and telling people what they should be focussed on is silly. Everyone has to carve their own path, so if you feel that it's not worth discussing then don't join in, but trying to make other people stop doesn't help anyone.

Also, if this is worth yelling about and calling people idiots over then I don't see how you can make the claim that this topic shouldn't be discussed.

 

[Ghuesaren]

"Arguing on the internet, is like the Special Olympics, even if you win, your still retarded."

As sensible as this sounds, I really hope you aren't taking it seriously.

Halo is still a video game, if your playing it to prove how much "skill" you have (and are therefor upset because the gametypes you play are not "balanced"), your doing it wrong.

Not denying anything you said at all, and 10 years ago I probably would have posted something similar. But with more life experiences you will eventually learn to put your time and passion into something more meaningful in life. It's a video game, don't let it upset you, no matter how much you love it. You really "should" be playing it to have fun (IN MY OPINION) not post on forums about how it used to be better or it's not balanced or even if you think it's perfect.

Just go enjoy it. That's all.

The discussion here is the different ways we have "fun". People that play basketball, various fighting games like sf or mvc, starcraft ii , etc at a competitive level and enjoys the heck out of it? They exist. I'm pretty sure you can't enjoy losing to every person you come across if "fun" means... Oh shit... Fun is subjective as fuck... Anyway, it is the point of the game to win [and have fun from start to finish] no matter how cliche or overly ambitious or brash you think it sounds.

Also, if this is worth yelling about and calling people idiots over then I don't see how you can make the claim that this topic shouldn't be discussed.

Dood. Everything should be discussed. e v e r y t h i n g ! *whisper whisper*

(not everything but a lot of things)

Helps open minds. Or maybe it'll just ram on its doors a few times to no avail. I don't know.

 

[Psychoduck]

Suggesting that discussions should not be had is extremely counterproductive. This is why so many people these days give off the impression of being uneducated and unintelligent: they are not willing to have logical debates. Debating is how things get done, this is how people arrive at conclusions. Trying to suggest that debates should not take place effectively stifles intelligent thought. Even when a debate's outcome won't yield any real results (a debate on the meaning of life, for example), it is still important as it takes advantage of our mental faculties as rational beings. Debating is about improving ourselves. A debate is an exercise for that muscle that most people forget about: the brain. In the case of this debate, the outcome actually has the potential to make a change; in this case fixing the game.

There's been some good discussion here, and it looks like the main question posed in the original post has been answered. People vote for Infinity settings not because they think it requires more skill or strategy than competitive settings (and indeed, it does not), but rather because they don't think about or care about skill or strategy in the first place. Rather, they appreciate the instant gratification, chaos, and customization afforded by Infinity Slayer. The best solution to this problem would be, rather than removing Infinity settings altogether, to split the playlists up similarly to how it was done in Halo 3. Rather than having ranked and social playlists, we would have competitive and casual playlists. I would still be open to seeing some customization in the competitive settings, as custom loadouts is not an inherently broken system but rather a poorly implemented one in its current iteration. Choosing between primary weapons (as long as they are balanced) could absolutely add some variety into the experience without breaking anything. Short of having this playlist split, I would suggest that moving infinity settings into a Grab Bag or Action Sack style playlist would also work (look at Power Slayer back in Reach). Either way, as long as players who want to play an arena shooter get to enjoy all areas of said arena shooter without being forced to play broken settings. I'm not too particular.

 

[GrmnEscaltrPrty]

I think I can come up with a solution that most of us can generally agree on here. Infinity Slayer has issues for competitive play, but a large part of the community enjoys it because it provides a different type of fun than basic slayer does. There has always been a community that prefers these types of modes, especially those who do not yet have the skill to do well in normal slayer or those simply not looking for as much strategy. Halo has always had modes that cater to both ends of the spectrum and many parts in between. Neither Slayer nor Infinity Slayer should be removed, instead they should be separated.

At the start of Halo 4, Infinity was all there was, which angered the part of the population that wanted standard slayer. Think about it, the game we had played for 10 years was just gone, and in its place something we weren't nearly as fond of. By the time they had added the other modes, many players had left the series entirely. Right now in matchmaking, players have to fight over 3 forms of slayer: Infinity, Legendary, and a middle ground. When players are forced to play the mode they don't want to play, especially if it happens often, they get frustrated because that wasn't what they bought it for. The people who want to play Infinity complain about the legendary and sometimes team slayer slots, while players looking for a more standardized experience complain about the opposite. We can coexist in one community like we always have, but not when we are fighting over what we want to play.

Therefore, I propose that Infinity game modes and Non-infinity modes must be in separate playlists, so that players can consistently play what they got on Halo to play. There are many balancing issues that need to take place alongside this such as playlist balancing, but I believe that this is the first step to drawing a line of peace. The two modes may not seem that different from an outside view, but they divide the community on basic beliefs as to how the game should be played. And hey, if they were separate, maybe each side would be more open about occasionally trying the other out to get a different experience.

You sire could not have said that better. You need to get a degree in the fucking creative bad ass thinker department!

 

[The Fated Fire]

The infinity concept was designed to mimic the massively successful casual multiplayer formula from the Call of Duty franchise. For those who enjoy instant gratification and unbalanced chaos, Call of Duty is waiting for you. Every vote that infinity settings receive over classic settings further sets back the development of true Halo gameplay in the next installment.

Halo multiplayer has never been about instant gratification, unbalanced chaos, or customization. Halo once was an arena shooter. An arena shooter that once held true to the principle that when two men enter...the better man leaves. Infinity settings changed that in Halo 4. Infinity settings were created in a failed attempt to gain and retain massive amounts of Call of Duty players. Within two weeks of Halo 4's launch, two hundred thousand of those players returned to other shooters. Within a year, 95 percent of Halo 4's launch population no longer plays Halo 4.

Many in this thread have argued for a separation of infinity settings and classic settings, but this is not equivalent to the separation of ranked and casual playlists. The difference between infinity and classic settings is comparable to the difference between playing two separate FPS games. A competitive core gameplay design with minimal differences between competitive and casual settings is essential to a united and strong community. Halo 2 and Halo 3 executed this and the community was never stronger. Halo 5 must follow it once again.

 

[Squally DaBeanz]

The infinity concept was designed to mimic the massively successful casual multiplayer formula from the Call of Duty franchise. For those who enjoy instant instant gratification and unbalanced chaos, Call of Duty is waiting for you. Every vote that infinity settings receive over classic settings further sets back the develop of true Halo gameplay in the next installment.

Halo multiplayer has never been about instant gratification, unbalanced chaos, or customization. Halo once was an arena shooter. An arena shooter that once held true to the principle that when two men enter...the better man leaves. Infinity settings changed that in Halo 4. Infinity settings were created in a failed attempt to gain and retain massive amounts of Call of Duty players. Within two weeks of Halo 4's launch, two hundred thousand of those players returned to other shooters. Within a year, 95 percent of Halo 4's launch population no longer plays Halo 4.

Many in this thread have argued for a separation of infinity settings and classic settings, but this is not equivalent to the separation of ranked and casual playlists. The difference between infinity and classic settings is comparable to the difference between playing two separate FPS games. A competitive core gameplay design with minimal differences between competitive and casual settings is essential to a united and strong community. Halo 2 and Halo 3 executed this and the community was never stronger. Halo 5 must follow it once again.

THANK YOU. People just don't use their brains anymore, and fail to realize just how much Infinity is hurting the franchise. Infinity settings can go burn. Halo needs to return to it's roots, or it's done for.

 

[Sgt x Slaphead]

While most people here have damn good reason to think Infinity Slayer is a bad idea I still fear 343 will not want to let this game variant go. I seems like this thing most people do not like yet they are desperate to get it in their game. I seriously hope we do not see this in Halo 5. Also the debating skills people have in these forums impressed me. Most of you present fair and balanced arguments. Maybe 343 will listen to the wiser members of their fanbase.

Sorry if that's how I came across WhiteWolfLegend you are right. I didn't mean it should be gone entirely. As earlier points made said we should not be forced to play it if we want a game of slayer however I think it should definitely be an option for the more casual player just as long as I don't have to play it. Also casting gametypes in the flaming pits of hell may be a bit dramatic but hey if it gets across what most people are feeling then why not? While we are at it could we chuck the boltshot in there as well? Ill get my shovel and dig a hole to hell and you can throw them in.

 

[EmbarkingZeus]

While most people here have damn good reason to think Infinity Slayer is a bad idea I still fear 343 will not want to let this game variant go. I seems like this thing most people do not like yet they are desperate to get it in their game. I seriously hope we do not see this in Halo 5. Also the debating skills people have in these forums impressed me. Most of you present fair and balanced arguments. Maybe 343 will listen to the wiser members of their fanbase.

While I agree with you, I don't think that Infinity Slayer should be removed from the game entirely, just removed from the default Slayer playlist. It belongs with other broken, chaos-fueled games like Fiesta, because those games are for those just looking to have fun without a lot of strategy, i.e. a playlist just for shits and giggles. While I despise playing it and at first wanted to see it destroyed and cast into the flaming pits of Hell, after reading a lot of the posts in this thread, I realized that a lot of people still like it and play it, so in my opinion, 343i should keep it, but improve it and give put it in a new playlist, like Action Sack, where it belongs.

 

[GrmnEscaltrPrty]

While I agree with you, I don't think that Infinity Slayer should be removed from the game entirely, just removed from the default Slayer playlist. It belongs with other broken, chaos-fueled games like Fiesta, because those games are for those just looking to have fun without a lot of strategy, i.e. a playlist just for shits and giggles. While I despise playing it and at first wanted to see it destroyed and cast into the flaming pits of Hell, after reading a lot of the posts in this thread, I realized that a lot of people still like it and play it, so in my opinion, 343i should keep it, but improve it and give put it in a new playlist, like Action Sack, where it belongs.

Keep in mind as a smaller industry they won't have too many servers to have separate playlists for Infinity and Classic Slayer. That might also be the reason that they had to combine the two sets together.

 

[ShockBolt21]

For those of you who prefer the flat skill-based gametypes over Infinity, I'm not going to try to change your opinion. However, there's one point mentioned and repeated in several of your arguments that I feel must be addressed.

You guys say that Infinity requires no strategy. I couldn't disagree more on this one. Infinity slayer provides players with tactical assets (armor abilities, various player upgrades, and weapons that can all be chosen) that allow for different strategies and different ways to play the game. They also give players a chance to outsmart their enemies. Because competitive gametypes lack this customization and variation, there's really only one way to play the game- to just sprint around until you find somebody, blast them with your BR until they die, and repeat. Where's the strategy in that? Yes, it is all about skill as the only way to win is to outshoot enemy players upon encountering them. But it takes no brain. The ability for players to incorporate strategy is extremely limited due to the lack of the tactical assets mentioned above. This is the main reason why I vote Infinity. This is also why I feel like competitive gametypes are more similar to Call of Duty than Infinity is.

People vote for Infinity settings not because they think it requires more skill or strategy than competitive settings (and indeed, it does not), but rather because they don't think about or care about skill or strategy in the first place. Rather, they appreciate the instant gratification, chaos, and customization afforded by Infinity Slayer.

I do not play for 'instant gratification,' but to be honest, I don't really play for skill either. I chose Infinity because of the amount of strategy that is required- that's what's most important for me. Competitive gametypes do not provide me with the opportunity to play tactically to the degree that I enjoy.

 

[Squally DaBeanz]

For those of you who prefer the flat skill-based gametypes over Infinity, I'm not going to try to change your opinion. However, there's one point mentioned and repeated in several of your arguments that I feel must be addressed.

You guys say that Infinity requires no strategy. I couldn't disagree more on this one. Infinity slayer provides players with tactical assets (armor abilities, various player upgrades, and weapons that can all be chosen) that allow for different strategies and different ways to play the game. They also give players a chance to outsmart their enemies. Because competitive gametypes lack this customization and variation, there's really only one way to play the game- to just sprint around until you find somebody, blast them with your BR until they die, and repeat. Where's the strategy in that? Yes, it is all about skill as the only way to win is to outshoot enemy players upon encountering them. But it takes no brain. The ability for players to incorporate strategy is extremely limited due to the lack of the tactical assets mentioned above. This is the main reason why I vote Infinity. This is also why I feel like competitive gametypes are more similar to Call of Duty than Infinity is.

Are you seriously rehashing this same argument? You've already made this point, and you've already been shot down. Please refer to how I responded the LAST time you made this EXACT same point.

Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, explain your twisted backwards logic. HOW can having to react to RANDOM and unpredictable elements POSSIBLY be more tactical and strategic than having everyone start on an even playing field? Let's compare this to chess, shall we? In chess, your opponent has all the exact same pieces, movement options, and abilities as you do. It all comes down to how use those assets. Would it be fair if a player could jump their piece halfway across the board over all the other pieces, or receive an additional random chess piece after enough of his other pieces die? No. By that logic, one person could get an extra Queen on the board because a few Pawns died, while someone else can get a Rook because their Queen and Bishops died. Is that fair? Is that strategic? Is that "more competitive"? Does that require more tactical thinking? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I don't care if you find Infinity Slayer more "fun". That's a subjective topic and not what the problem here is. The problem is that Infinity Slayer is imbalanced, unfair, and RANDOM; and it has been shoved down our throats so much that people like you now accept that as the way things "should be". The way Halo used to be is how it SHOULD be. Balanced. You want something "fun", and you get that out of Infinity settings. Fine, whatever. But don't you DARE say it's more competitive or strategic than classic Halo settings. There's a reason Infinity settings aren't used in tournaments. No matter how hard you try to argue otherwise, there's no way you can possibly say that with legitimate claims and ways to prove your point; in which case, you will be falling under the "idiots" category that Psycho Duck quoted.

Please, rethink what you said and put a little more logic into your next post.

Notice the last line^^^

 

[Skyward Shoe]

I feel like there is a confusion still between "competitive" and "Standard" Halo. Most people now lump the two together under competitive, but they are pretty different in the long run. Competitive Halo is the likes of MLG, Throwdown, Unity, etc.. It is often no sprint, no or extremely limited armor abilities, everyone starting with the same gun, the works. It's usually meant for tourneys or for truly competitive 4 v 4 games, only very occasionally ever used in larger lobbies. It's also used in 1 v 1's and 2 v 2's because those are straight up competitions between 2 or 4 players and demand a very precise balance to function correctly. I'm not sure which game mode would make the highest tier of competitive gameplay, but the lowest tier competitive mode is likely Legendary Slayer, as it is only slightly restrictive on gameplay. These have their place, but very few people even in the competitive crowd would want to see these played in every single game.

Standard Halo is what most of us want. Essentially, so long as it is not flagrantly broken it works here. The only things that don't work for standard are random ordnance, personal ordnance, a few items within personal load outs (though personal load outs are awesome otherwise), 2 armor abilities (Active Camo and Jetpack, though camo as a pickup a la Halo 1-3 is fine) and a few power weapons that were poorly balanced (Binary Rifle, Incineration Cannon, Fuel Rod Gun, etc...) Everything else is good to go.

Competitive Halo has a place in the game, as does Infinity. My argument is that these should both be in the game but that Standard Halo should be the main thing offered in Matchmaking. For the average player, the good armor abilities, sprint, and the personal load out system improve the game a lot, they only become problems when something in them is broken (Plasma pistols, Boltshots, certain grenades and the problem causing AA's). Competitive Halo offers a place for those who want to play truly competitive games, Infinity is there for those who want more crazy fun but still some degree of strategy, with fiesta and the like then catering to the people who just want to turn their brains off. But in the end, the majority of players just want a simple, well balanced Standard Halo experience.

 

[UNSC Spartan-II]

I don't really mind it. The personal ordnance drops can be fun to have in my opinion.

 

[EmbarkingZeus]

I don't really mind it. The personal ordnance drops can be fun to have in my opinion.

So you enjoy playing Infinity? Well, I am ok with that. Although I can't agree with why you like personal ordinance. It is SO broken. Ever have a Splazer in a Slayer match on Haven? Didn't think so.

 

[UNSC Spartan-II]

So you enjoy playing Infinity? Well, I am ok with that. Although I can't agree with why you like personal ordinance. It is SO broken. Ever have a Splazer in a Slayer match on Haven? Didn't think so.

Thanks for accepting my opinion. I understand that many people dislike the personal ordnance drops and want classic Halo multiplayer back. This is something that we can wait for in Halo 5. 343 might surprise us.

 

[GrmnEscaltrPrty]

So you enjoy playing Infinity? Well, I am ok with that. Although I can't agree with why you like personal ordinance. It is SO broken. Ever have a Splazer in a Slayer match on Haven? Didn't think so.

I've had that happen. As well as it glitched and i called down a pistol...