Not everyone had the chance to bring up this "old" discussion. And hey, if the state of the forums bother you so, then why not do something about it?
Halo Why do you vote Infinity Slayer?
- Thread starter Sgt x Slaphead
- Start date
Not everyone had the chance to bring up this "old" discussion. And hey, if the state of the forums bother you so, then why not do something about it?
In halo's early days, parents still forbade they're younger kids from playing violent shooting games. Now, those kids are parents, and they're 14 year old kids have been playing shooters since they were really little. The chaotic, just have fun, explosions everywhere type of game that infinity slayer is, appeals to this generation of short attention spanned people. You see it with a ton of games, not just halo. Every game spoon feeds you now adays.
Infinity slayer lets you have fun even if you aren't a great player. Not fun in the 'oh i'm good at this game' sense, but fun in the 'oh I suck but I can still get kills with this randomly dropped incineration cannon!' That's all fine and dandy, but to echo what others said, that gets old fast. Sure, when you're just messing around with your buddies, infinity can be exciting.
Some people don't have fun like that though. Some people have fun playing in a game where you can anticipate things the enemy team is going to do. Where you can form strategies based on what weapons you think or know the other team has. 'Oh shit, we didn't get the rockets first, so that means they have em' as opposed to 'I have no idea what weapons the other team has' I know in halo 3, and even in reach, I had a few buddies I played with. We tried to play competitively when we played. We were after the win. Infinity slayer ruined that though because it no longer became about us controlling a position, and remember weapon spawn times to make sure we got the power weapons. Each one of us had or strengths and weaknesses and so we'd spend our time in the lobby, once we knew the map, coming up with some plan of action at the start. That was fun. With infinity slayer, that doesn't happen. Doesn't matter how good we hold an area, we never know when someone on the other team is gonna get enough assists and distractions to get himself an incineration cannon.
Everyone votes for infinity slayer because they're looking for 3-5 minutes of explosions and chaos instead of 5-10 minutes of strategy, skill and a bit of challenge.
Infinity slayer lets you have fun even if you aren't a great player. Not fun in the 'oh i'm good at this game' sense, but fun in the 'oh I suck but I can still get kills with this randomly dropped incineration cannon!' That's all fine and dandy, but to echo what others said, that gets old fast. Sure, when you're just messing around with your buddies, infinity can be exciting.
Some people don't have fun like that though. Some people have fun playing in a game where you can anticipate things the enemy team is going to do. Where you can form strategies based on what weapons you think or know the other team has. 'Oh shit, we didn't get the rockets first, so that means they have em' as opposed to 'I have no idea what weapons the other team has' I know in halo 3, and even in reach, I had a few buddies I played with. We tried to play competitively when we played. We were after the win. Infinity slayer ruined that though because it no longer became about us controlling a position, and remember weapon spawn times to make sure we got the power weapons. Each one of us had or strengths and weaknesses and so we'd spend our time in the lobby, once we knew the map, coming up with some plan of action at the start. That was fun. With infinity slayer, that doesn't happen. Doesn't matter how good we hold an area, we never know when someone on the other team is gonna get enough assists and distractions to get himself an incineration cannon.
Everyone votes for infinity slayer because they're looking for 3-5 minutes of explosions and chaos instead of 5-10 minutes of strategy, skill and a bit of challenge.
Card games! In Yu Gi Oh, Hearthstone and Magic exists luck based game-play specifically on choices available, what you pick out [and vise versa with opponent(s)]. At the same time, in infinity the player's skill or lack thereof can still be determined in a very narrow events, such as when a person who just selected a fuel rod or rocket launcher is fired upon first by someone who just recieved an overshield. However, the armor abilities do add a bit of strategy, which also exists in card games where randomness is always in play, except the strategical aspect in [strategy] card games requires much more brain planning in the way Smelnick explains right above/before me here.
For the most part, infinity is as others have said, mindless (like CoD). Relying on reaction and instinct.
For the most part, infinity is as others have said, mindless (like CoD). Relying on reaction and instinct.
But even in those card games, you can still play the cards you are dealt in a manner that helps the game go in your favour. Also, as the match progresses, you get a sense of your opponents style or strategy and so you can start playing to counter that. In infinity slayer, there's just a bit too much randomness. First off, way too many options for initial loadouts, and people can change what they're using between deaths. Then the infinity drops can drop power weapons without you even knowing. It's just chaos really.
Not that its a bad thing. I won't lie, I do have fun playing infinity slayer. It'd just be nice to be able to have the focus back where the older halo games had the focus. Its nice that halo has evolved, but I always thought that with evolution, the good stuff was kept and the stuff that didn't work wasn't regenerated. In the leap from reach to halo 4, that didn't happen lol.
Not that its a bad thing. I won't lie, I do have fun playing infinity slayer. It'd just be nice to be able to have the focus back where the older halo games had the focus. Its nice that halo has evolved, but I always thought that with evolution, the good stuff was kept and the stuff that didn't work wasn't regenerated. In the leap from reach to halo 4, that didn't happen lol.
Ahem. You talking to me? ARE YOU talking to ME????!!!!
Rather than quote Psycho on this ill just tag him. Psychoduck, you make perfect sense here. Those you mentioned on waypoint dont know how to spell LOGIC, BALANCE, and HALO. None of them argue any other point other than "This is what I WANT so make it so. Make me my sandwich." As for some others people here, you've all made wonderful points. Something to said however is, ShockBolt21, how can you COMPLETELY side with infinity slayer? I mean sure infinity slayers fun (i went there, yeah thats right i did) but so is objective based games that are balanced. Legendary slayer was like pro to the go! But the main problem here is the community is full of idiots as Squally DaBeanz mentioned. They're everywhere. If 100 idiots make a choice of idiocy for playlists in Halo 5 i will
so hard i will kill myself. If i hear one unarguable point on infinity slayer that makes me want to laugh out of sheer stupidity- I WILL COME TO YOUR HOUSE AND SHOW YOU THE RIGHT WAY TO PLAY HALO!!!!!Unity fixes a lot of the stuff we hate. It brings back some reach aspects which i like. One thing about unity that everyone knows (no wait, those idiots dont.) is that it makes everything balanced. Add that to your vocabulary if you dotn know what that means.
I agree with ChewyNutCluster about introducing infinity slayer as a focal point. This wasn't a good decision as was stickies in loadouts. What is so awful about this is that 343 is very creative but that is what ultimately broke halo. I've heard one of my friends say when halo 4 came out he put it in played 3 matches and took the disc out and played cod. He said, "I dont like this so why should I play this?" This brings me to another point, infinity slayer was like taking cod mixing some halo with it, letting it sit in the sun until it was forgotten, taken out later and tried to give more competitive elements to.
How does one classify the needs of halo? Look at halo 3, it had everything halo needed and the best custom options, some of the best maps and the best out looking community. Reach had amazing community as well, they accepted a lot of things Bungie did with the game. They may not have liked DMR bloom, sure they complained, but MLG had a no bloom game mode which balanced that. Reach was everything fun i wanted. Halo 4 screwed with a lot of stuff. Halo Reach made me feel like this was the right game for me. Halo 4 didn't sit right, it didn't give me that nostalgic feeling i liked. I still play it. But its like nothing is good about it. I only play it now for messing around with friends and 1v1ing them (ShockBolt21, Zandril) .
Ultimately, lots of stuff is broken, sucky community remains (not us), reach seems to be the way to go.
Sorry for double posting but you may have given me a map and gametype idea! Thank you. Although card games as mentioned may have some slight randomness they require a lot of strategy. This is comign from someone who plays Yu Gi Oh on the occasion. So yeah halo 4 is screwed, sure 343 sucks right now, sure the community lacks complex thinking skills, but the fact that the people on this site still play the game shows something right? That 10,000 + people can do something all together, we could make the next Halo choice with petitioning. As some cheesy humor would have it, Avengers Assemble!
Not in my opinion.
You guys can't call us idiots because our opinion is different from yours. It doesn't matter how much analysis we put into the game modes; we're already aware that infinity is unbalanced. But we still have more fun playing it. We've already played pro and legendary and didn't like it, and nothing you guys say is going to change that.
So why would we vote pro or legendary? Why vote a gametype that we're not going to enjoy playing over a gametype that we will enjoy playing? And are we really idiots for not choosing the former?
To me, v5 or any other competitive Halo gametype feels more like call of duty than Infinity does. You literally just sprint around until you find somebody, blast them with your BR until they die, and repeat. Sure it takes skill to win the shootout, but really no brain- the available strategies are extremely limited due to the lack of tactical assets such as armor abilities, upgrades, and customization. I've always believed that if nothing else, Infinity requires more strategy and tactical thinking than competitive, which is one of the main reasons I like it more.
it's only been like ten years, not enough for a full human life cycle.
Infinity Slayer definitely requires a different type of strategy. While it's not a type of strategy I personal enjoy, I don't have any problem with other people enjoying it, and I don't get upset at anyone that prefers Infinity over Legendary/Pro settings. My problem, as I mentioned earlier, is with the way the playlists are organized. I think Infinity should have its own playlist, and that there should also be playlists that feature traditional Halo (without Sprint/Ordnance/AA's). That way everyone can play what they want.
Shockbolt21 said:
I'm not calling all those who favor infinity slayer idiots. I'm saying all those who try to argue infinity slayer is the way to over every other more halo related game isnt thinking very much. Although you may say that you think its much better and although I can relate, i cant agree with you. I'm pretty sure this is sending mixed messages right now so I'll just say this. The people Psychoduck mentioned are the idiots, if you try to argue like them you're an idiot. Thats what I'm trying to say with that part.
That's beside the point. Regardless of the reasons WHY there are more young little kids playing shooters, there still ARE more young kids playing online shooters, and that's why these 'easy, feed you with a spoon' type gametypes are more prevalent. If a ton of their consumer market is young kids, they're gonna keep making games that offer no challenge when past iterations did.
I get what you mean. I meant to compare the ability to modify load outs and ordnance drops with the air strikes you get and such, but that's arguable in itself and nevertheless remains imbalanced. I don't even know the game types in CoD and I've only played MW2 along time ago so that's as far as my say goes.
All in all the differences in arguments seem to lie in strategical planning ahead of the game, as opposed to decision making in the thick of things (to an extent). I guess I'm just too impartial to the different game types.
No problem. I don't know much about 343 except that they're nice so I have no say in that.
Communities in general can appear in many faces, but we all know not everyone is a dumb.
Halo 4 is in no way trash, but I would prefer the Bungie originals any day.
It always helps to have voices coming from bigger groups.
Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, explain your twisted backwards logic. HOW can having to react to RANDOM and unpredictable elements POSSIBLY be more tactical and strategic than having everyone start on an even playing field? Let's compare this to chess, shall we? In chess, your opponent has all the exact same pieces, movement options, and abilities as you do. It all comes down to how use those assets. Would it be fair if a player could jump their pice halfway across the board over all the other pieces, or receive an additional random chess piece after enough of his other pieces die? No. By that logic, one person could get an extra Queen on the board because a few Pawns died, while someone else can get a Rook because their Queen and Bishops died. Is that fair? Is that strategic? Is that "more competitive"? Does that require more tactical thinking? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
I don't care if you find Infinity Slayer more "fun". That's a subjective topic and not what the problem here is. The problem is that Infinity Slayer is imbalanced, unfair, and RANDOM; and it has been shoved down our throats so much that people like you now accept that as the way things "should be". The way Halo used to be is how it SHOULD be. Balanced. You want something "fun", and you get that out of Infinity settings. Fine, whatever. But don't you DARE say it's more competitive or strategic than classic Halo settings. There's a reason Infinity settings aren't used in tournaments. No matter how hard you try to argue otherwise, there's no way you can possibly say that with legitimate claims and ways to prove your point; in which case, you will be falling under the "idiots" category that Psycho Duck quoted.
Please, rethink what you said and put a little more logic into your next post.
/facepalm
I think I can come up with a solution that most of us can generally agree on here. Infinity Slayer has issues for competitive play, but a large part of the community enjoys it because it provides a different type of fun than basic slayer does. There has always been a community that prefers these types of modes, especially those who do not yet have the skill to do well in normal slayer or those simply not looking for as much strategy. Halo has always had modes that cater to both ends of the spectrum and many parts in between. Neither Slayer nor Infinity Slayer should be removed, instead they should be separated.
At the start of Halo 4, Infinity was all there was, which angered the part of the population that wanted standard slayer. Think about it, the game we had played for 10 years was just gone, and in its place something we weren't nearly as fond of. By the time they had added the other modes, many players had left the series entirely. Right now in matchmaking, players have to fight over 3 forms of slayer: Infinity, Legendary, and a middle ground. When players are forced to play the mode they don't want to play, especially if it happens often, they get frustrated because that wasn't what they bought it for. The people who want to play Infinity complain about the legendary and sometimes team slayer slots, while players looking for a more standardized experience complain about the opposite. We can coexist in one community like we always have, but not when we are fighting over what we want to play.
Therefore, I propose that Infinity game modes and Non-infinity modes must be in separate playlists, so that players can consistently play what they got on Halo to play. There are many balancing issues that need to take place alongside this such as playlist balancing, but I believe that this is the first step to drawing a line of peace. The two modes may not seem that different from an outside view, but they divide the community on basic beliefs as to how the game should be played. And hey, if they were separate, maybe each side would be more open about occasionally trying the other out to get a different experience.
At the start of Halo 4, Infinity was all there was, which angered the part of the population that wanted standard slayer. Think about it, the game we had played for 10 years was just gone, and in its place something we weren't nearly as fond of. By the time they had added the other modes, many players had left the series entirely. Right now in matchmaking, players have to fight over 3 forms of slayer: Infinity, Legendary, and a middle ground. When players are forced to play the mode they don't want to play, especially if it happens often, they get frustrated because that wasn't what they bought it for. The people who want to play Infinity complain about the legendary and sometimes team slayer slots, while players looking for a more standardized experience complain about the opposite. We can coexist in one community like we always have, but not when we are fighting over what we want to play.
Therefore, I propose that Infinity game modes and Non-infinity modes must be in separate playlists, so that players can consistently play what they got on Halo to play. There are many balancing issues that need to take place alongside this such as playlist balancing, but I believe that this is the first step to drawing a line of peace. The two modes may not seem that different from an outside view, but they divide the community on basic beliefs as to how the game should be played. And hey, if they were separate, maybe each side would be more open about occasionally trying the other out to get a different experience.
Halo is still a video game, if your playing it to prove how much "skill" you have (and are therefor upset because the gametypes you play are not "balanced"), your doing it wrong.
You'll figure that you after you grow up. Until then...
"Arguing on the internet, is like the Special Olympics, even if you win, your still retarded."
You'll figure that you after you grow up. Until then...
"Arguing on the internet, is like the Special Olympics, even if you win, your still retarded."
You do realize that people play games for different reasons, right? That players have fun in different ways? Even if they are just having fun, people playing any kind of game (whether a video game, a sport, or a basic game such as chess) often are playing to have a friendly competition against one another. Most players aren't rampantly yelling about who is better, it's simply a challenge amongst friends. But when things aren't balanced and fair, then these kinds of challenges can't happen, because neither player feels right. One feels cheated, the other feels like they cheated. Sure, you can still play ignoring any competition, but it's part of what makes playing games exciting for many people – the chance to compete in a fair and fun environment. For people like me who design for these competitions this adds a layer of depth that would be unavailable otherwise. If everything didn't have to be considered fair between the teams there would be nothing to balance, no way to fine tune a map to be truly great. Maps would either be popular or unpopular, with no objective parts that are well or poorly designed.
Also, if you think that after all of this time Halo is "just a video game," then you are very mistaken. Halo isn't just the game on the disk, it's over 10 years of experiences by anyone who ever had anything to do with it. It's all the people who play or have played, who talk about it, who design around it. Anyone who's had their life changed by Halo, whether by a little or a lot, is part of what Halo is. It is all of the universe, books, fan art, and anything else that has sprung up since the idea first came about at Bungie. To me, Halo is the game, but also 3 years of forging, the friends I've made through forums and customs, the skills I've developed and all that I've learned in that time. Subtract all of that and you would take a large part of my life with it. I know a lot of other people who feel the same way, and so we are not arguing just about a game, but for something that has profoundly affected us in the past and likely will continue to do so. Halo has affected hundreds of thousands of people on a variety of levels; it's not "just game," it's a culture.
Your missing my point, it's mostly my fault. I'm a terrible communicator in general.
Not denying anything you said at all, and 10 years ago I probably would have posted something similar. But with more life experiences you will eventually learn to put your time and passion into something more meaningful in life. It's a video game, don't let it upset you, no matter how much you love it. You really "should" be playing it to have fun (IN MY OPINION) not post on forums about how it used to be better or it's not balanced or even if you think it's perfect.
Just go enjoy it. That's all.
Not denying anything you said at all, and 10 years ago I probably would have posted something similar. But with more life experiences you will eventually learn to put your time and passion into something more meaningful in life. It's a video game, don't let it upset you, no matter how much you love it. You really "should" be playing it to have fun (IN MY OPINION) not post on forums about how it used to be better or it's not balanced or even if you think it's perfect.
Just go enjoy it. That's all.