Halo Why do you vote Infinity Slayer?
- Thread starter Sgt x Slaphead
- Start date
I'm pretty sure they've read hundreds of threads similar to this. The question is, are they going to listen to the true Halo community or will they continue the Infinity bullshit in Halo 5.
Sorry but I kept having that one extra little thing I really wanted to say =) Its because of all the great replies I have had to this thread.
I actually find myself siding with Psycho's "ignorant" waypoint fellas on this one. They're damn right about one thing- Legendary and Pro are simply no fun. At all. It's great to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Critically analyze the game all you want, but that won't change a thing. Sure infinity has some broken elements. Sure, legendary and pro are more balanced. But even with these, Infinity Slayer is the mode I prefer to play, and will continue to vote for.
I don't think that Infinity Slayer is as "random" or "luck based" as you guys make it out to be. You can call it broken and the weapons unbalanced, but even so it does take skill to win, as well as strategy, which I feel is absent from other 'competitive' gametypes.
If Halo 5 is as flat as you guys want it to be, I may simply not buy it.
Critically analyze the game all you want, but that won't change a thing. Sure infinity has some broken elements. Sure, legendary and pro are more balanced. But even with these, Infinity Slayer is the mode I prefer to play, and will continue to vote for.
I don't think that Infinity Slayer is as "random" or "luck based" as you guys make it out to be. You can call it broken and the weapons unbalanced, but even so it does take skill to win, as well as strategy, which I feel is absent from other 'competitive' gametypes.
If Halo 5 is as flat as you guys want it to be, I may simply not buy it.
Slaphead, I've merged your posts together. Next time try to just edit new stuff into your posts rather than posting a million times in a row please.
While I appreciate that your post is a bit more thoughtful than the posts I quoted from Waypoint (don't even try to argue that they aren't ignorant), your argument is still ultimately invalid. How "fun" something is is purely subjective. If you think that arena shooters are boring, you shouldn't be playing Halo in the first place. You cannot base a valid argument merely on how fun something is, how balanced something is on the other hand, is absolutely something which you can support an argument about. Again, having a balanced sandbox will ultimately allow for the best experience for all players. If you really think that balance is inherently boring, then I am truly disappointed. On the other hand, if you merely think that the way a real Halo sandbox is balanced is boring, than I suppose that's your prerogative. Either way, you're playing the wrong game. Perhaps you shouldn't be buying Halo 5, as you clearly do not like or understand arena shooters. Of course Halo 4 isn't really an arena shooter (except for when you play custom modes like Legendary), but it's still based on an arena sandbox. It just has a lot of inherently broken and poorly implemented features thrown into that sandbox.
Infinity Slayer is every bit as random and luck based as some of us have described above. Sure, the best player still has an advantage, but what it comes down to is how well a player exploits broken things such as the boltshot, jetpack, camo, etc. ad how "lucky" a player gets with their Infinity ordnance. Infinity Ordnance is, in itself (randomness aside) a bad system, as rewarding players who have already pulled ahead of the pack with the tools to keep them ahead of the pack seriously prevents players from having a fighting chance once they fall behind (you see the same problem with killstreaks in CoD). Random ordnance is also a problem, and the reason why is in its title. Personal loadouts could absolute be made to work, they're just poorly implemented in their current iteration, presenting numerous broken and exploitable options. The best players are still going to have an advantage in Infinity Settings, but that doesn't mean it isn't luck-based or random and hence ultimately unfair.
I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again. You can like Infinity settings all you want, but don't try to use that as basis for an argument that infinity settings are actually "good". Critically analyzing the sandbox is absolutely important, and while what you "like" should be a factor in deciding what you want to play, it needs to stay out out of arguments about what actually works.
While I appreciate that your post is a bit more thoughtful than the posts I quoted from Waypoint (don't even try to argue that they aren't ignorant), your argument is still ultimately invalid. How "fun" something is is purely subjective. If you think that arena shooters are boring, you shouldn't be playing Halo in the first place. You cannot base a valid argument merely on how fun something is, how balanced something is on the other hand, is absolutely something which you can support an argument about. Again, having a balanced sandbox will ultimately allow for the best experience for all players. If you really think that balance is inherently boring, then I am truly disappointed. On the other hand, if you merely think that the way a real Halo sandbox is balanced is boring, than I suppose that's your prerogative. Either way, you're playing the wrong game. Perhaps you shouldn't be buying Halo 5, as you clearly do not like or understand arena shooters. Of course Halo 4 isn't really an arena shooter (except for when you play custom modes like Legendary), but it's still based on an arena sandbox. It just has a lot of inherently broken and poorly implemented features thrown into that sandbox.
Infinity Slayer is every bit as random and luck based as some of us have described above. Sure, the best player still has an advantage, but what it comes down to is how well a player exploits broken things such as the boltshot, jetpack, camo, etc. ad how "lucky" a player gets with their Infinity ordnance. Infinity Ordnance is, in itself (randomness aside) a bad system, as rewarding players who have already pulled ahead of the pack with the tools to keep them ahead of the pack seriously prevents players from having a fighting chance once they fall behind (you see the same problem with killstreaks in CoD). Random ordnance is also a problem, and the reason why is in its title. Personal loadouts could absolute be made to work, they're just poorly implemented in their current iteration, presenting numerous broken and exploitable options. The best players are still going to have an advantage in Infinity Settings, but that doesn't mean it isn't luck-based or random and hence ultimately unfair.
I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again. You can like Infinity settings all you want, but don't try to use that as basis for an argument that infinity settings are actually "good". Critically analyzing the sandbox is absolutely important, and while what you "like" should be a factor in deciding what you want to play, it needs to stay out out of arguments about what actually works.
That's the thing Shockbolt, we aren't asking for Infinity to be utterly removed from the game. That wouldn't work, a lot of people do like it. But like most of those people, you are confusing what you like to play with what actually works well. While there is a large group that likes Infinity Slayer, Halo 4's population would beg to differ on it being better.
What we are looking for is for it to no longer be the primary game mode. Can you imagine is Fiesta was the main mode played in Matchmaking, all of the time? It shouldn't be hard after Halo 4. People who have played the game for years want to be able to play a fair and basic version of the game they have always loved alongside other more crazy modes. With Infinity Slayer as the main mode, it's like telling basketball players they can only ever play a version of basketball while wearing silly hats and skipping. Funny at first, but a year later it's getting really, really old.
As for Infinity not being random, well, we've been over this before. Skill comes in many ways, and Infinity actually removes the other kinds of skill, not just being able to aim a BR. The skill and smarts it took to control power weapons? Gone with the ability to drop in weapons, favoring the guy who is just the better shot. The smarts it took to predict what an enemy had and where they are doing? Almost impossible with personal ordnance and random weapon drops, and of course p-vision which throws all of your sneakery out the window. The risk involved with giving up a good position to get a lower down weapon? Pretty much gone with personal ordnance and jetpack. Many of the little things that would have helped out the smart player are actually removed by Infinity. It increases the skill gap in some ways and tries to compensate with random weapons, meaning that the better player will still usually win, but will often lose or be killed not because they screwed up, but because of factors outside of their control. And in a skill based game, nothing, nothing is supposed to be outside of your control because then it is no longer skill based in the first place.
If you think Legendary and Pro are "no fun", then you shouldn't be on Halo in the first place because (surprise!) that's how past games were, and is the CORE Halo experience. Halo 4 has skewed so many people's opinions about how the game should work. It seems almost everyone forgets that before Halo 4, you actually had to WORK for power weapons, and WORK to lock down power positions, and WORK to predict enemy movement and spawns, and WORK to get sights on people, and WORK to get the weapons you wanted.
We critically analyze everything because the game is so terribly broken, and that's what you HAD to do in the past. A smart player would be able to flank around enemy players, predict their spawns, know when power weapons came up, know the quickest ways around the map, etc. THAT is what creates a true skill gap, not "who can adapt to random elements the best." And yes, they are random. Before, you had to lock down a certain area and know when and where a weapon spawns to get it. This also meant there were only so many power weapons in play at a time. Now, you can just drop a RANDOM power weapon at your feet for getting a few kills, which should be reward enough on it's own. How could it possibly be fair that I'm out there risking my life trying to shoot enemy players and get points, when someone can snipe me from across the map because he got a sniper dropped at his feet for getting a few assists and distractions? There was no way I could have predicted that there was a sniper in play. It might not even be a map that normally has a sniper on it! How is that fair?
Fast forward a few minutes, and I get the option to drop a Needler at my feet for getting a killing spree. In the meantime, some else get the option for an Incineration Cannon for getting some assists and distractions. Is this FAIR? Let me answer: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Not only did he get a better weapon for NO reason other than luck, but NEITHER of us had to lock down any power positions to EARN those weapons. Speaking of earning, is it fair that I got a crappy weapon for actually putting a score on the board, while he got the "I Win Gun" for hiding like a coward and taking a few shots at someone every now and again?
The ENTIRE system is broken at it's most basic and fundamental level. It RANDOMLY rewards player for acts that don't even help the game by RANDOMLY generating RANDOM options to drop AT YOUR FEET instead of having actual map control or earning the weapon. Random is outside of player control, and therefor has NO place in a skill based arena shooter like Halo.
/rantover
Thanks Duck I'm still kind of new to Halo Customs. If I do something retarded it wont happen again... hopefully.
Also your understanding of competitive Halo is impressive. The points you made were interesting and I think I may have watched every THFE competitive map feature... actually I watch all things THFE. Anyway as long as there are still people on Halo with brains I still have some hope. Thanks again.
We need a clear form of communication between the community and the people at 343 who make the big decisions.
Also your understanding of competitive Halo is impressive. The points you made were interesting and I think I may have watched every THFE competitive map feature... actually I watch all things THFE. Anyway as long as there are still people on Halo with brains I still have some hope. Thanks again.
We need a clear form of communication between the community and the people at 343 who make the big decisions.
Those in favor of fixing this game should unite.
We've been too nice about pointing out 343's flaws with the game.
It's time to mobilize, get all in their face (and we won't be polite about it anymore!)
And give them an ultimatum as to what they WILL do with Halo 5, or else we're not buying it.
We've been too nice about pointing out 343's flaws with the game.
It's time to mobilize, get all in their face (and we won't be polite about it anymore!)
And give them an ultimatum as to what they WILL do with Halo 5, or else we're not buying it.
We still need to be polite. A civilized discussion will go much farther than mindless rage. If we keep ourselves composed, and point out the flaws as they are (no sugar coating), then they'll have no choice but to take us seriously.
Duck, I think we need to rally all the big names still left out there, and make a documentary/petition video to send to 343. We need to explain to them why the game is broken, why we want things to be fixed, why they NEED to be fixed, and the facts to back it all up. Show them the population drop, take screenshots of all the well thought out threads explaining the problems and potential fixes, and get testimonials from all the big names out there (players and forgers alike). If we keep it civilized and professional, they'll have to listen to us. No raging, just stating the facts and asking them to make a change for the betterment of the series as a whole.
In neither this post or the previous one am I trying to argue why Infinity is better- I'm simply trying to explain why I enjoy it more. The waypoint posts were probably the same- they asked for our opinions, and we gave it to them. There was no attempt to contradict your thoughts, just stating ours as asked. If we were trying to argue why infinity is better, then those posts would certainly be ignorant, though it is true that many of them are either way.
So yes, these are opinion based. I am not necessarily trying to prove a point.
I wouldn't say that these skill requirements are removed, but rather reduced. Power weapons still spawn on the map on a timer, and risk vs reward is still present in their placement. Power positions are still there and must be fought for. Squally, I don't see how Infinity eliminates the need to work to predict enemy spawns and to get a sight on your opponents. All of these skills can still be used to gain an advantage.
Also, one problem I have with your arguments is that they're exaggerated a bit too much. You make it sound like everybody is running around with incineration cannons, and that power weapons are constantly falling everywhere out of the sky. It's not that hectic- players don't usually get more than one, or sometimes two, drops per game. If you think about it, you'll realize that Halo 4 really doesn't have many more random elements than any other non-Halo game, so the fact that you called it "luck based" made no sense to me.
But I do agree that infinity ordinance should not exist. The only reason I'm arguing in its favor here is to show why I can put up with it for the sake of the other features of Infinity Slayer, such as loadouts and armor abilities, that Legendary and Pro don't have.
In my opinion, the perfect gametype for Halo 4 would have unrestricted loadouts, with armor abilities, upgrades, and everything. Sensor and sprint would be enabled. Infinity Ordinance would not be present. Whether or not random ordinance is added wouldn't matter to me. I don't think that random ordinance is that much of a problem, as they will still be fought for and everyone is made aware of its existence and when it is taken.
There are also other elements that need to be fixed, such as the imbalances among the weapons- the boltshot, plasma weapons and, in my opinion, the battle rifle and frag grenades all need to be brought down a level. But despite these imperfections, I'd rather play a partially broken game mode with most of the desired elements I mentioned earlier than a balanced one with none at all- this is why I vote infinity.
In what way? 343 seems to get no respect from the community. They messed up, but there are plenty of great things that they've done for the series that almost go unnoticed. These guys are trying, and they are giving the community their full respect. I'm sure that they've already gotten your message, and a scaling up of your repetitive rants won't solve anything.
Rather than do all of this on your own, you should just join the efforts that are already underway.
A Community Letter for 343 - Featuring the Document The Needed 5 for Halo 5
I play infinity more for variety and to unlock sh** I want, but it is definitely imbalanced as opposed to competition-worthy gametypes as I have learned more thoroughly in this thread.
If it has been mentioned already I'll repeat that the ability to get a fuel rod allows those that would otherwise feel frustrated at using a default weapons over and over and getting less kills if any to feel good in killing others. The Scylla is the lack of skill (either inability or inexperience), and the Charybdis is the lack of knowing.
I take pride in that analogy.
If it has been mentioned already I'll repeat that the ability to get a fuel rod allows those that would otherwise feel frustrated at using a default weapons over and over and getting less kills if any to feel good in killing others. The Scylla is the lack of skill (either inability or inexperience), and the Charybdis is the lack of knowing.
I take pride in that analogy.
I play infinity more for [a little] variety and to unlock sh** I want, but it is definitely less balanced than competition-worthy gametypes as I have learned more thoroughly in this neat-ass thread.
If it has been mentioned already I'll repeat that the ability to get a fuel rod allows those that would otherwise feel frustrated at using a default weapons over and over and getting less kills if any to feel good in killing others. The Scylla is the lack of skill (either inability or inexperience), and the Charybdis is the lack of knowing.
I take pride in that analogy.
Homer's Oddesy ftw
I never said Infinity settings eliminate the need to predict spawns or get sights on people, I said before Halo 4, there were certain things that happened. Halo 4 has a terrible spawning system that is more chaotic than previous iterations (I won't get into the influence radius or decay rate stuff here). As for sightlines: JETPACK. Jetpack completely ruins vertical map flow and horizontal cover. Say someone takes cover behind a small rock or wall. Someone with a jetpack can just fly up and get a view on that person from far away, without having to worry about approaching that position or having grenades thrown at them. (Ok, so I guess the jetpack part can be considered Infinity settings.
On to your defense of "power weapons everywhere". Lets do some counting. Each person on each team has the ability to call in ordnance. This gives us eight power weapons. Now, lets be modest and say the map has four power weapons on us. That's now twelve power weapons. Now, throw in Random Ordnance. That can easily add up to another six if people conserve their ammo and are careful and avoid death. Obviously, this is a worst case scenario, but you can see my point. That would be TWENTY power weapons being shared/fought over by just eight people, and most of those can't even be predicted or properly accounted for. And let's not forget big team! Big team would DOUBLE this amount, as well as throw in the ability for every person to disable and instantly destroy a vehicle off spawn. I'm seeing some very troubling patterns forming here...
So, if YOU think about it, you'll realize that Halo 4 DOES have a lot of random elements in it. So much, that it is on par with other random luck based games. How could this be a good thing? You're saying "Halo 4 really doesn't have many more random elements than any other non-Halo game". This is true, but past Halos hardly had ANY random elements in them. If other games were brought up on a random and luck based system, that's fine. That's THEIR legacy, but Halo was brought up as a skill based arena shooter that had everyone starting on an even playing field with the more skilled player rising to the top. It should not be going down the road of "non-Halo games". Halo is Halo, and should stay that way.
/rantcontinues
I play infinity more for variety and to unlock sh** I want, but it is definitely imbalanced as opposed to competition-worthy gametypes as I have learned more thoroughly in this thread.
If it has been mentioned already I'll repeat that the ability to get a fuel rod allows those that would otherwise feel frustrated at using a default weapons over and over and getting less kills if any to feel good in killing others. The Scylla is the lack of skill (either inability or inexperience), and the Charybdis is the lack of knowing.
I take pride in that analogy.
I see what you did there, you sly dog, you
Way to bitch? Sorry that some of us feel voicing complaints about the direction of a decade old franchise we love is appropriate.