Legacy Settings Initiative

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Squally DaBeanz

Big Jerk
Jan 9, 2013
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Well, Halo 5 is out and, yes, I caved and bought it.

While the game is a drastic improvement over the beta, and better than what I had originally anticipated, there are still a few minor things I'm not entirely satisfied with. I could sit here and rant about what I feel could have been done differently, but that's not the point of this thread. Here's the point: We have an unprecedented amount of control over custom game options compared to past Halo titles. So, what are we to do with this new found freedom? Personally, I would like to see a more classic Halo experience flourish next to the new one created in Halo 5 through the use of Forge and custom games. I imagine I'm not alone in this, and want to create a sub-community around a universal set of gametype settings that cater to a more classic Halo experience. Legacy Settings.

So, what are Legacy Settings? The basic idea is that they are gametypes that have disabled the new Spartan Abilities introduced in Halo 5, and tweaked the existing settings to compensate for that change. Here's the question, though: What do we change, and how? This is where the community will come in. Because I want these to be universally accepted settings throughout the community, I feel their creation should be a community collaboration.

The first step is to create new movement settings. Halo 5 has all new movement mechanics that the game was designed around. When you take away these new mechanics, what's left doesn't feel "quite right". You feel sluggish. I have created nine Legacy Settings beta gametypes to try and tackle this problem. Each gametype focuses on a different variation of the base movement and jumping settings. I would like to open these up to the community for testing. Since there is no fileshare system yet, I have created a Google Doc displaying the names of the gametypes and their respective settings.

-Legacy Settings Beta Gametypes- Phase One: Movement

I would like to invite anyone interested in playing/supporting/designing for Legacy Settings to create some of these gametypes and test them out with friends. Once you have played them, please leave any feedback in this thread. I will use this feedback to further tweak and change things, and release new versions of the gametypes as time goes on. Hopefully this will be finished by the time Forge comes out, and we can have two distinct communities coexisting, designing, and playing side by side with each other.

When creating each gametype, please disable the following:
-Thruster Pack
-Spartan Charge
-Ground Pound
-Stabilizer
-Sprint
-Clamber

Starting Weapons: Battle Rifle and Magnum OR Assault Rifle and Magnum.

If anyone has suggestions for changes, please let me know. This is a collaborative effort, and I want the settings to be widely accessible and accepted. This first phase is focusing purely on movement. Changes to damage tables and health will come later, but please do not refrain from suggestions about those as well.

A few things to keep in mind:

-This is not to see how well these settings play on current maps.
-I have been using Pegasus as a test bed due to easily made measurements for speed, distance, and height.
-Please focus on the handling and feel of the gametype itself when engaging other players.
-These first betas are testing movement only.
-Things like starting weapons and radar will be separate variables when the settings are finalized.
-These settings are not meant to replace standard H5 settings, but to be an alternative to play and design for.
-All suggestions and feeback are welcome.
 

Jebus

Propane Specialist
Staff member
Jan 10, 2013
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Just a question but are there any gripes against the stabilizer? I personally don't believe it really would negatively effect gameplay on a legacy style map unlike sprint or clamber. I feel it could be a unique addition to legacy settings, should it not negatively impact anything. We can even adjust the duration and gravity effect of the stabilizer if need be.
 

Squally DaBeanz

Big Jerk
Jan 9, 2013
342
217
126
Just a question but are there any gripes against the stabilizer? I personally don't believe it really would negatively effect gameplay on a legacy style map unlike sprint or clamber. I feel it could be a unique addition to legacy settings, should it not negatively impact anything. We can even adjust the duration and gravity effect of the stabilizer if need be.

My main problem with Stabilizer is that it makes jump shots too easy. In classic Halo, if you were gonna stay behind cover and jump up, you had a split second to make the shot. With stabilizer, you have an easier time doing this. Admittedly, this is a minor complaint, but the point is to make Legacy Settings as close to classic as possible given the current sandbox and engine.
 
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Jebus

Propane Specialist
Staff member
Jan 10, 2013
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My main problem with Stabilizer is that it makes jump shots too easy. In classic Halo, if you were gonna stay behind cover and jump up, you had a split second to make the shot. With stabilizer, you have an easier time doing this. Admittedly, this is a minor complaint, but the point is to make Legacy Settings as close to classic as possible given the current sandbox and engine.
What about increasing the gravity of the stabilizer so players drop faster while it's active? I know legacy settings are supposed to emulate classic Halo but I still want to see some more opinions and thoughts on this. I'm by no means trying to defend the Spartan Abilities, I'm just wondering if we can still add something in that would positively mix things up just a tiny bit, so its not exactly like playing every Halo game prior to Reach (with faster TTK) with every new game that comes out.

EDIT: I should probably clear up a few things as I contradicted myself in this post. Bear with me when I explain this because I'm terrible at explaining things: What I meant by "mix things up" is by evolving what the last good competitive Halo title (Halo 3 in this case) did, similar to how Halo 3 was a smooth evolution of what Halo 2.

Regarding gameplay, Halo 3 evolved what Halo 2 did by giving us on-map equipment, better balanced weapons, etc.. Halo: Reach negatively "evolved" what Halo 3 did by giving us loadouts, bloom, static health and armor abilities. If done right (should it not impact the game negatively), stabilizers complimented with Halo 5's sandbox and new weapons could possibly, in a way, give us a true bootleg evolution of Halo 3.

Either way this was just a thought. Stabilizers still aren't classic Halo whichever way I try to explain it so I leave it up to you guys for an opinion on this.
 
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Squally DaBeanz

Big Jerk
Jan 9, 2013
342
217
126
What about increasing the gravity of the stabilizer so players drop faster while it's active? I know legacy settings are supposed to emulate classic Halo but I still want to see some more opinions and thoughts on this. I'm by no means trying to defend the Spartan Abilities, I'm just wondering if we can still add something in that would positively mix things up just a tiny bit, so its not exactly like playing every Halo game prior to Reach (with faster TTK) with every new game that comes out.

EDIT: I should probably clear up a few things as I contradicted myself in this post. Bear with me when I explain this because I'm terrible at explaining things: What I meant by "mix things up" is by evolving what the last good competitive Halo title (Halo 3 in this case) did, similar to how Halo 3 was a smooth evolution of what Halo 2.

Regarding gameplay, Halo 3 evolved what Halo 2 did by giving us on-map equipment, better balanced weapons, etc.. Halo: Reach negatively "evolved" what Halo 3 did by giving us loadouts, bloom, static health and armor abilities. If done right (should it not impact the game negatively), stabilizers complimented with Halo 5's sandbox and new weapons could possibly, in a way, give us a true bootleg evolution of Halo 3.

Either way this was just a thought. Stabilizers still aren't classic Halo whichever way I try to explain it so I leave it up to you guys for an opinion on this.
Right. But by that logic, you could say the same about any of the Spartan Abilities, which many people do. Because of that, you gotta draw a line somewhere. Legacy Settings are meant to be as simple and close to classic settings as possible. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you're saying, but it just doesn't align with the goals of creating these settings. Sorry :/
 
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Stevo

The Grinchmind
Dec 31, 2012
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It should be BR and AR start, not BR and Magnum... I don't know any games that had a BR and a Magnum start...?
The thruster ability is the only thing in Halo 5 worth keeping, it actually creates a higher skill gap which makes for better competitive play. The other abilities are all "lets just add this insta-kill option to all players" because its honestly like 343 were getting sick of being raped at their own games, which is also why they reduced the radar range (like honestly, wtaf).

110% movement
110% jump height
thruster enabled
clamber enabled (because it actually really works well for fluid and dynamic map movement)
sprint disabled
pound disabled
charge disabled
stabilizers disabled
110% damage resistance (to increase kill times)
Radar range to 25-30m
 

Psychoduck

Round Objects™
Dec 23, 2012
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It should be BR and AR start, not BR and Magnum... I don't know any games that had a BR and a Magnum start...?
The thruster ability is the only thing in Halo 5 worth keeping, it actually creates a higher skill gap which makes for better competitive play. The other abilities are all "lets just add this insta-kill option to all players" because its honestly like 343 were getting sick of being raped at their own games, which is also why they reduced the radar range (like honestly, wtaf).

110% movement
110% jump height
thruster enabled
clamber enabled (because it actually really works well for fluid and dynamic map movement)
sprint disabled
pound disabled
charge disabled
stabilizers disabled
110% damage resistance (to increase kill times)
Radar range to 25-30m
Your only justification for having an AR secondary rather than a magnum is that AR secondaries were traditional in past games, yet you want to add features like thruster and clamber to these settings? Everything you're proposing here will serve only to lower the skill gap. The AR is a crutch for unskilled players which, with its larger magazine, headshot damage modifier, and ability to zoom, is far easier to use and more reliable than in past games. Its power compared to the magnum in base H5 settings is questionable, and the same is true here as it will serve only to act as a means for less skilled players to go up against more skilled opponents and come out on top. The magnum is a utility weapon with an immense skill gap, and the entire sandbox is designed around it.

The thruster adds to the skill gap only when combined with sprint, crouch, stabilize, and clamber to enhance the jumping game. These abilities can be chained together to enact incredibly diverse and skillful trick jumps. Alone, thrust and clamber are each crutches which allow players to get out of engagements and get a second chance when they make poor positioning decisions. This will be compounded by your proposed longer kill times.

Increasing radar range only serves to make players less reliant on map awareness, again acting as a crutch.
 

Stevo

The Grinchmind
Dec 31, 2012
248
116
198
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United Kingdom
On the contrary, the AR should be included for its effectiveness in close quarters. Having a magnum serves no purpose when holding a BR as they effectively have the same range, only the BR optics are better and it's more accurate at longer ranges. It might just be my opinion on this, but why carry two almost identical weapons? If you disagree with the AR, then perhaps the SMG counterpart would be more suitable?

In current matchmaking, (and this is from a LOT of people talking about it) the radar is pointless. On the rig for example, you cannot detect someone of the other side of the wall from the sniper spawn. If someone sprints through that tunnel, taking all of 0.5s to do so, you're engaged in combat without knowing. There is no situational awareness. If you're able to see someone on the radar sprinting towards you, you're already dead. They'll have covered the ground between your radar's range and you before you've moved your eyes off your radar and reacted to them... And that's IF you're already facing them. It either needs increasing so it has a use, or removing, so it isn't being used by force of habit from players that used to rely on it.

Again, I have to disagree for the new ability elements. Each of them can be very powerful when combined, or isolated. Using them in the right scenarios is what determines whether you live or die in your next encounter. The reason I selected no sprint and thruster is because thruster can act as a short sprint when rushing for power weapons. It also serves purposes for jumping distance, and evading, and also directional man-cannon changes. Sprint (IMO) causes the current maps to get too crowded. You can literally be on a killing spree and not have time to reload before yet another enemy runs around the corner, and at that point, it could be the same guy you just killed 7 seconds ago... Ground pound to me has to be the least useful ability. It doesn't appear to be one hit kill, it doesn't damage vehicles enough to warrant its use against them, and so far the only purpose it's served me in is getting to the damage boost on that forge map. Spartan charge is a bad idea. One hit punches just because someone is sprinting is rotten... But then, without sprint, there would be no charge anyway.

An average kill time in Halo 5 is 1.7 seconds, with 1.4 seconds being the fastest precision kill time (excluding sniper rifle). I don't believe it takes all 12 bullets from the BR burst to kill the opponent, so increasing the damage resistance wouldn't mean the kill times would be drastically increased, but it would mean the perfect kill would literally be all 12 bullets of the BR 4-shot. In this case, a perfect 4-shot would still be a 1.4s kill time. The likelihood of that happening every game would be reduced, making the skill gap higher in executing those faster kills.