Halo DMR problems

[Cint10008]

Do you guys think the dmr is OP if so why and what can be done about it. Or if you don't explain your side of the argument. I personally use the br and I dont think it is OP but alot of people complain about I. Please let me know what you think.

 

[FREEDOM COBRA]

I think its overpowered, but anyone with skill can take a DMR noob with the BR. Covey Carbine needs a little buff though.

 

[corduroyCHUCK]

to me, the DMR is overpowered because of the maps 343i gives us. They've got this PERFECT balance between the DMR, BR, and AR going, each serving their purpose and distance, yet the maps they add are all gigantic DMR maps with no areas for the BR and AR to truly shine. the weapon itself isn't OP, it's the maps making it so

and then on the other side of the coin, they can't give us CQC maps for AR and BR combat because of the instant respawn and sprint.

EDIT:
although looking at the competitive playlist updates theres hope for BR/AR maps in the future

 

[MockKnizzle]

I'm with Chuck in that the perceived "imbalance" between the DMR and BR is due to map design issues, not the actual power of the guns. Ragnarok is the perfect example: the map was fantastic back in Halo 3, but with the added precision at range of the DMR the map simply doesn't have enough peripheral/small cover to be able to push up to the effective range of the BR. It may be nostalgic, but simply porting a H3 design to H4 just isn't going to work with with the new sandbox unless you make some changes (heaven forbid). I think maps like Vortex and Wreckage do a much better job - they provide some long sightlines for DMR users, but there are also smaller central interior areas and some tight corridors for the BR/Carbine and plenty of scattered cover to duck out of long-range fire.

 

[RogerDodger]

The BR and DMR are pretty much the same. They both have the same fire rate. In effect, they both have the same damage ratios. The only differences are the accuracy and burst feature.

The DMR wins in both hip-fire and ADS accuracy. In ADS, where shot distribution is a factor, one DMR bullet has an certain possibility of hitting wheras tracking a target with the BR bursts is considered more difficult. This is because, through human nature, we figure that the shots magically follow the target. If a target is moving perpendicular to the shooter, a minor aiming adjustment has to be made to compensate. Hip-fire is based on conic accuracy. Although I don't have the recoil plots or anything, it's pretty clear that you can effectively utilize hip-fire for the DMR past that of the BR. My estimates on the BR's conic hip-spread guarantee 100% accuracy on a still target up until 50 meters. Factoring shot distribution getting distorted by motion tracking and muzzle flash, I'd give a rough estimate between 30-35 meters of surefire hip accuracy.

Burst fire is good news for the BR when you're talking about head-shot advantages, Given both weapons are in effective range of the target, the BR has more leniency with accuracy. This is notably seen in SWAT, where no one has shields and the BR rewards you. Even when you're not in SWAT, this leniency can be used to counter lag or other distracting circumstances.

In conclusion, the DMR and BR are pretty much tied. Problems specifically referring to the DMR, though, are dependent on other weapons like it. Both the Light Rifle (through necessity of the aiming feature, limiting ease of use) and the Covenant Carbine (low damage, a little higher fire rate and a limited magazine) are comparatively inferior to the DMR in almost every way. Problems that revolve around both the DMR and BR superiority include (but are not limited to): a secondary weapon with an effective OHKO range of 10 METERS (coughBOLTSHOTcough), the AR being superior up until only about 20 meters, the Suppressor at only 10 meters, a Storm Rifle which is statistically inferior to the AR, and two grenades that can dispatch any close range assailant with a simple stick (also counteracting bashing).

 

[FREEDOM COBRA]

to me, the DMR is overpowered because of the maps 343i gives us. They've got this PERFECT balance between the DMR, BR, and AR going, each serving their purpose and distance, yet the maps they add are all gigantic DMR maps with no areas for the BR and AR to truly shine. the weapon itself isn't OP, it's the maps making it so

and then on the other side of the coin, they can't give us CQC maps for AR and BR combat because of the instant respawn and sprint.

EDIT:
although looking at the competitive playlist updates theres hope for BR/AR maps in the future

I tend to agree and disagree. While many of the maps do favor the disgusting DMR, Haven is good for the AR and the BR can be used at a range like the DMR, but it takes skill to control the recoil.

P.S. The DMR hate is because it was the only usable starter weapon in Reach.

 

[iws27]

I have to say, it seems to me that the BR is awesomer than the DMR. Just sayin.

 

[RogerDodger]

and then on the other side of the coin, they can't give us CQC maps for AR and BR combat because of the instant respawn and sprint.

CQC maps don't have to be small, necessarily. As long as there's consistent de-integration between parts of the map combined with choke points and only a few long sight lines, people could easily make something like that. 343, however, would probably refrain from doing that because they're concerned with the public opinion of aesthetics and grandeur.

 

[ArmdNinja547]

Hahaha IWS27 I have to agree, the BR is totally more awesome than the DMR without a doubt. Now, I am completely opposed to the DMR but after the evidence shown in this thread it has shown new light on the horrid weapon. However, it doesn't make up for the fact that 343i has to do SOMETHING about it. Whether that involves map design, instant respawn, or maybe even gametype changes we shall see.

On a side note, I would like to explain what I mean by gametype changes. This variable applies to all bases including, but not limited to, map design, instant respawn, and weapon loadout customization. The standard gametype allows for instant respawn, and as previously stated above, does not allow the BR to show its full potential in CQ maps because 343i can't make some type of spawn killing frenzy map. Secondly, custom loadouts apply many factors to the game that people tend to over look. Some combinations of weapons can be more powerful than others thus tipping gameplay away from those with 'weaker' weapon combos.
Example: Most of the maps in vanilla Halo 4 are moderate to long range. Using a DMR to take out enemy's at close-far range and a boltshot to take out enemies at EXTREMELY close range makes a extremely deadly combination. While a weaker combination may be a Carbine and a plasma pistol. While the Carbine may be effective at close-mid range, at long range it definitely lacks compared to the other weapons. In addition, the plasma pistol can be very useful, especially against vehicles, but at CQ against a foe this would require a full charge, and a lot of spamming, or a full charge and weapon swap for the headshot, which drastically decreases the chance of finishing the kill.
In conclusion, if 343i were to go back to the 'Halo roots' and force weapon combinations like assault rifle or battle rifle and pistol, make a respawn time of 3 or 4 seconds, and place power weapons/ regular weapons around the map (whether through regular placement or fancy pantsy in-game ordance drops) would make the gameplay much much much more enjoyable for those who are having trouble with current gameplay.

 

[RogerDodger]

Using a DMR to take out enemy's at close-far range and a boltshot to take out enemies at EXTREMELY close range makes a extremely deadly combination. While a weaker combination may be a Carbine and a plasma pistol.

A. The DMR wins out against all non-precision weapons after about 15-20 meters. Boltshot has a OHKO distance of 10 meters. Therefore, there's only a discrepancy of about 5-10 meters in where there's any reason to use something that's not the DMR/BR + Boltshot. If they reduced the Pocket Shotgun's range down to something more reasonable, like 5-7 meters, that gap would be more significant.

B. I find the BR to work better with the PP than the Carbine. As I said in a previous post, you get that extra instantaneous leniency that the CC can't offer. The only redeeming factor of the CC is that you can afford to miss a headshot, something I find highly situational when the lock-on for the PP is probably well under 20 meters.

 

[ArmdNinja547]

A. The DMR wins out against all non-precision weapons after about 15-20 meters. Boltshot has a OHKO distance of 10 meters. Therefore, there's only a discrepancy of about 5-10 meters in where there's any reason to use something that's not the DMR/BR + Boltshot. If they reduced the Pocket Shotgun's range down to something more reasonable, like 5-7 meters, that gap would be more significant.

B. I find the BR to work better with the PP than the Carbine. As I said in a previous post, you get that extra instantaneous leniency that the CC can't offer. The only redeeming factor of the CC is that you can afford to miss a headshot, something I find highly situational when the lock-on for the PP is probably well under 20 meters.

Well haha I didn't mean specifically that combination, I really have no idea about the exact specs of those weapon combinations but what I posted was from my own observation. The point I was trying to get across was how the DMR could be used in many custom weapon combos where as other weapons can also be used in many weapon combos however the effectiveness is not as great as with the DMR.

 

[FloydRTC95]

Honestly, I just talked about this on a forum the other day, but instead of being entirely fair, I'm gunna be a little biased this time.
I am a BR rapist. I just got my BR Mastery and I'm not even SR90 yet. I love that gone. Hard-scoping the Haven and Adrift Hallways with the BR is glorious, as so many DMR-jerks think their range will help them and they get mowed down. That being said, the DMR is an overpowered bitch. It's mini-sniper range and bullet magnetism make it unbelievably unfair on most BTB maps and even the larger "medium" sized maps. Complex and Abandon, which seem about medium-sized, are dominated by the DMR. Adrift and Haven are smaller, making the BR a favored weapon. As for Solace, I barely play it. It's overabundance of sight blockers make it way too much of a bitch for Infinity Slayer and SWAT. All of the bigger maps (sans Meltdown) are DMR dominated. The Light Rifle is pretty good, but it's not AS good. As for the Carbine, I think it needs a damage boost. I love using it, but it's lack of power makes it the least used of all the precision loadout weapons.
In short, DMR needs to be nerfed a bit. BR is perfect, Light Rifle and Carbine need a power increase to be more effective.

 

[Fuzzle]

What really tells you that the game is balanced is,that there is so much diversity in opinion s here. I personally think its quite balancrd

 

[Ariel Morgan]

I was thinking about this.

Currently I am not a fan of the gameplay on the larger maps. The DMR manages to dominate, and with any type of coordination you can have people down in an instant (which is not a bad thing per say for competitive, but we will have to see).

Right now I prefer to run the BR, it feels so good now and it has a nifty range, and i find the close quarters to be quite sufficient. On Haven and more close quarters I have been running the Carbine, as I am having great success with it vs the DMR on the smaller maps.

It's obvious the guns were balanced with range in mind (not as much playstyle, IMO) and this suffers due to the maps size and alleys. Some maps feel like they have very little transition from the large spaces to other large spaces, it's just all large spaces and sightlines. This was made worse to me last night when we had teams spawning in sight of each other and everyone was packing the range. There were no close quarters skirmishes, and it took me dying twice (near instantly) to decide to change to the DMR everyone was using.

Right now I think the issue is much more maps, than it is gun balance, soooo this one is on us to make some sweet maps for good close-mid range play!
Let's get to it!

 

[iws27]

I know the BR is awesome, but any persicion weapon user can be beaten by a good automatic, like a SAW or suppressor. I mean, i use my suppressor all the time against snipers and win. I know we're talking about the DMR, but both weapons mentioned are useless at close range. But that doesnt mean I dont dominate with the BR...

 

[Ariel Morgan]

Autos only work at close range. Something that is not common right now because of the map designs.

I think that play is being dominated by the DMR because it fits the role of the most accurate ranged starting weapon. Automatics haven't dominated the halo scene ever, and I doubt they will.

I do agree that in this game automatics actually have a place (running down on someone with SAW actually kills them before the clip is out, which helps make it a viable weapon). As soon as that SAW user is in the open though, he should be dying to the DMR fire quite quickly. A lot faster and farther than the SAW can kill.

Autos have a place, it's just very niche because of the map selection we have right now. Heck I could see a SAW being a power weapon on some maps. It really tears people up.

 

[ArmdNinja547]

Okay, here's what I'm starting to think now. 343i got the weapon descriptions/ characteristics so down to the dot that the only applicable weapon on the maps they have is the DMR. Naturally, people tend to gravitate towards the weapons that scores them the most kill (even if that weapon is overpowered). However, they perfected the Assault rifle and magnum, and the BR (although I don't like the look) is good too. They may need to decrease ROF in the DMR just so its not as overpowered as they are now.

 

[Ormy96]

In my opinion the DMR is ok and not overpowered on Inf slayer but on swat it is about the same 3 shot's to the body without a shield and you get killed, the thing that annoys me the most about swat is when people constantly use the pistol because it's the fastest firing weapon on swat, in fact I think the pistol is too fast and should be nerfed. Rant over.

Back to the main point of the thread, in conclusion I find that the DMR can be overpowered on most maps on Halo 4, especially when it's in the hands of a skilled player. And the AR is for noobs or people who prefer close combat, like people following the operator specialization. But that's all just my opinion.

 

[a ninja samuri]

i use the br and i personally dont think the dmr is overpowered i mostly always take out the person using it i just think some weapons need to be a bit more powerful like the storm rifle if it was a bit more powerful than the suppressor than i would be happy.

 

[kenny10293847]

I'd like to reference the following video:

This guy is clearly good, but he goes up against Walshy (who is armed with DMR) with AR and comes out on top. Perhaps play style is as important as map size (although haven is a smaller map). Just food for thought.