Gaming Xbox "One" Reveal!

Everyone needs to look up the First Sale Doctrine. If that doesnt change your mind on the issue, then nothing will.
On, the contrary, I think YOU need to look up First Sale Doctrine. Pretty much all video game EULA (which you agree to when you purchase the game) states that the game you just purchased wasn't bought at all, but rather licensed. You don't own it. Never have, never will. Since FSD requires lawful ownership, video games do not apply to the concept.

Also, like I mentioned in my first post, developers offer services far beyond the disc. Someone who didn't pay them any money for the game should not get to take advantage of those services.

They announced this a week before the XBone debacle..er..reveal. They only did this to make themselves look good, while they knew that the same system is in place within the consoles themselves. Please don't be fooled by this faux generosity. There will be no savings to be had. They do not deserve ANY monetary compensation for an unit they have received a 100% return on. It's ludicrous to even justify it. They do NOT own that copy of the game and are exempt from any money garnered from resale. Period.


They had previously announced that it wouldn't happen on new games, but they JUST announced that they were getting rid of it on existing games. I assure you, they didn't just do this to make themselves look good. Looking good is a byproduct. And yes, there literally are savings to be had. Both to people buying their existing games and new games, who no longer have to buy season/multiplayer passes.
 
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Hadokenchild

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On, the contrary, I think YOU need to look up First Sale Doctrine. Pretty much all video game EULA (which you agree to when you purchase the game) states that the game you just purchased wasn't bought at all, but rather licensed. You don't own it. Never have, never will. Since FSD requires lawful ownership, video games do not apply to the concept.

Also, like I mentioned in my first post, developers offer services far beyond the disc. Someone who didn't pay them any money for the game should not get to take advantage of those services.

They had previously announced that it wouldn't happen on new games, but they JUST announced that they were getting rid of it on existing games. I assure you, they didn't just do this to make themselves look good. Looking good is a byproduct. And yes, there literally are savings to be had. Both to people buying their existing games and new games, who no longer have to buy season/multiplayer passes.


First of all, the idea of licensing is a relatively new concept in console gaming. If you wish me to photocopy every scrap of information packaged in with games from the 2600 through the 360, just to show that the idea of an EULA didn't surface till the current gen, I will. Otherwise it's just "Cus I say so!" as an argument that it has always existed. While it has been the case for computer software since day one, it hasn't been that way for console games since they are limited use products. Also, the terminology of how we obtain these games should change. We shouldn't be told to go to a "retailer" to "buy" games. We shouldn't read advertisements explicitly state "get YOUR copy now!'. Everything about retail outlets, from GameStop to Best Buy, imply ownership of products after the sale. If this is NOT the case, shouldn't they be subject to legal action for not clarifying what exactly we are purchasing? False advertising and all that.

On to your other point. Let's say, in an extreme case, you as a publisher/developer sell 1million copies of AAA game X. Your servers show that every game sold is playing simultaneously. Now, say those numbers never drop over the next year. How are you, as a publisher/developer losing money? Logically, you aren't. There aren't more players playing than units sold. Now if you look at all the users online playing your game, how do you know that every one of them is an initial customer? You have no clue if they are or not, all you see is that all your games sold are accounted for. That means you received %100 return on all those units. You aren't losing money. On paper, every person who bought your game new is still playing it. Publishers and developers can ONLY lose profits from piracy.

On a side note, there seems to be a glaring misconception that studios get shut down only because they are losing revenue from used sales. Yet we can actually see major companies such as EA (yeah, them again) shutter a studio within a few months, or even weeks after acquisition. Yet the focus get shifted away from them towards second hand and rentals as a way to spurn support to have those avenues (and the jobs they support) wiped from the Earth. They will divert the blame for a title's mediocre or failed success towards second hand sales, rather than admitting the game was garbage. Used games is an easy scapegoat for them, and an extremely flawed one.
 

The7thSeal

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On to your other point. Let's say, in an extreme case, you as a publisher/developer sell 1million copies of AAA game X. Your servers show that every game sold is playing simultaneously. Now, say those numbers never drop over the next year. How are you, as a publisher/developer losing money? Logically, you aren't. There aren't more players playing than units sold. Now if you look at all the users online playing your game, how do you know that every one of them is an initial customer? You have no clue if they are or not, all you see is that all your games sold are accounted for. That means you received 100% return on all those units. You aren't losing money. On paper, every person who bought your game new is still playing it. Publishers and developers can ONLY lose profits from piracy.


They are in fact losing money. If the sales of a game, including used sales, are 1.2 million (1 million new, 0.2 used), but the users online is only 1 million, they are losing 0.2 million in new game sales, because a lot there games are circulating around gamers. They'd wouldn't be losing money if people actually went out and bought a new copy of the game.

Also, you statement that publishers only lose money on piracy is completely wrong, as I stated above, they don't make any money on used games or piracy, although piracy means they are losing more money than on used sales (I think, don't quote me on that).
 

Hadokenchild

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They are in fact losing money. If the sales of a game, including used sales, are 1.2 million (1 million new, 0.2 used), but the users online is only 1 million, they are losing 0.2 million in new game sales, because a lot there games are circulating around gamers. They'd wouldn't be losing money if people actually went out and bought a new copy of the game.

Also, you statement that publishers only lose money on piracy is completely wrong, as I stated above, they don't make any money on used games or piracy, although piracy means they are losing more money than on used sales (I think, don't quote me on that).


I see what you mean, but let me put it this way.
When the game store chain I used to work for was bought out by GameStop, I ended up with some of the developer/publisher/distributor contact info. I thought it might be cool to have my own business, so I sent out for pricing info. The profit margin for a new game was about $4. I would've had to pay $56 to get a game on my shelf, then do the markup. This means every game shipped is bought and paid for before it's even on the shelf. Now, that being said, what do you think happens when game prices are marked down, or there is a sale? Well, we lose our ass on them. The devs don't take the hit, cus we already paid for those games in full. So the longer a game sits in the shelf, the more money the retailer loses. If it gets to the point of having to ship back unsold units, we might just get market value in return. Which is nothing by then.
 
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On a side note, there seems to be a glaring misconception that studios get shut down only because they are losing revenue from used sales. Yet we can actually see major companies such as EA (yeah, them again) shutter a studio within a few months, or even weeks after acquisition. Yet the focus get shifted away from them towards second hand and rentals as a way to spurn support to have those avenues (and the jobs they support) wiped from the Earth. They will divert the blame for a title's mediocre or failed success towards second hand sales, rather than admitting the game was garbage. Used games is an easy scapegoat for them, and an extremely flawed one.

I've honest to god never heard a developer/publisher take this stance. That's not to say it hasn't happened, but it'd be news to me. Can you provide some examples?
 

Hadokenchild

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Epic did it with Bulletstorm.
Real Time Worlds did it with Crackdown (most people just wanted the Halo 3 beta anyhow)
EA ditching Nintendo over not implementing anti-used policies. Nobody buys sports games for the Wii.
 

ArmdNinja547

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Playstation is going to charge a fee to play online just like Xbox live. Playstation = $400 - Xbox One = $500
Differences:
Xbox One - High Tech Kinect
 
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Tomtris

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Playstation is going to charge a fee to play online just like Xbox live. Playstation = $400 - Xbox One = $500
Differences:
Xbox One - High Tech Kinect

Differences:

942567_194698937355042_1709951499_n.jpg
 

ArmdNinja547

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It will carry over. So your PSN you have now (Which I don't) Will carry over from the PS3/Vita to the PS4.
Haha I don't either, just contemplating the compatibility/accessibility of Live over PSN. That's a huge factor to me with gaming, and that's socializing with friends. Then comes comfort, and I'm not sure the PS4 controller is bulky enough.
 

Zeezke99

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Haha I don't either, just contemplating the compatibility/accessibility of Live over PSN. That's a huge factor to me with gaming, and that's socializing with friends. Then comes comfort, and I'm not sure the PS4 controller is bulky enough.

Well, I believe its $50 for One year ($10 cheaper than Xbox)*
PS4 will have Destiny and Elder Scroll Online, Plus I do believe Sony has a party set-up. (Someone correct me if Im wrong).
I completely understand your concerns about the size of the PS4 controller. Im going to to into seeing if I can find a larger type when it comes out. Though after using a smaller controller, we may get used to it.