Halo What you hate about current maps

[Ariel Morgan]

Hey everyone!

I was interested in seeing some thoughts people have on some of the current maps in match making. As it stands, it seems like most people are unhappy with the gameplay in general and a lot of that may have to do with maps.

In order to make sure things are clear I would like that your post has a map to reference (or a general aspect of maps) your opinion(s) on. If possible, write your 3 least favorite maps in order.

Here are the layouts, and callouts of all the Halo 4 maps

Take a look at those, do some serious thinking, and get back with some analysis about what you HATE about the current maps, and potentially, what can be done to make them better!

Right now we know things can get better, but we gotta figure out how to do so.
Straight complaining gets you nowhere, but discussion may spark potential solutions (if they are general gamplay solutions, map balance solutions, etc).

Let me start:
Least Favorite maps

1. Vortex
2. Solace
3. Abandon

Vortex- The call outs suck and lack specifics. The layout requires people to split up and it has long sightlines down the side lanes with some rocks scattered in there for cover. It seems like so many rocks were placed after playtesting. This map also features a lot of hills, causing a lot of looking up and down and left and right and... This map has not been fun in any of the matches I had it.
How to fix it IMO - Remove some of the rocks. Sprint is in the game for a reason. There do need to be some running risks in the gameplay (remember how BARREN Blood Gulch feels compared to these maps?). It always feels like there is something to hide behind, and it doesn't feel like any given location holds any more weight than another.

Solace - This map is ALMOST symmetrical, then somewhere along the line someone said "needs to be less symmetrical" and that is the route they went.
The map, to me, has so much central flow, which is disrupted by a pointless lift and basement area. The flanking potential on the map is squandered because of the map's width, coupled with the low ground being on the outer edges of the map. Someone in either "sniper spot" has terrific sight of the map, but outside of that spot, I feel vision is cluttered with filler objects that feel like half assed walls.
The basement is so "tacked on" that it hurts me.
The clutter, coupled with the horrible flow of this map make me dread playing it.
How to fix it IMO - Make some of the half walls and dividers full walls (so you don't have to crouch under them and so they can cover sniper/DMR/LR fire). Level out the sides of the map so that you don't have to get a full disadvantage while flanking. Make the basement worth something other than the "Token power weapon spot" (doubt this can be done... lol). Remove clutter in front of bases...

Abandon - This map is cursed, even the name implies they could give a crap about this map. Currently, I do not hate this map the most, it doesn't play worse than the other two IMO, but it plays badly nonetheless. There is no "groove" in this map.
Basically, think of the Pit in H3. You would go skirmish rockets, snipers, sword room, then flow to their side of the map, and attempt to set up their spawns.
This map, has none of that. Power weapons feel random and out of place on here (sniper? Railgun? and their locations?). The map itself just feels littered with stuff. When I spawn I feel like a moth to flame, I must get to the middle tower, because it's the best vision on the map, and it can be defended somewhat, unlike any other location.
This map can only have single flag, one bomb objective gametypes.
How to fix it IMO - Start over.


Alright guys, what thoughts do you have?

 

[Albreich]

I have had some similar thoughts about Vortex. Although, i'm not really sure that the map is fixable. I cant put my finger on it but something about the map does not feel right and that something isnt working.
The only purpose it really serves is for spartan ops.

 

[RogerDodger]

I'm surprised Complex didn't get thrown in the mix. There are so many flaws with that map that one could make an entire thread upon it. Or Harvest being in the 4v4 Slayer playlist.

Anyways, I'm going to take into account everything you've discussed with my responses to each map:

Vortex: Yes, there are too many rocks -- BUT! Not enough walls. The map contains three bases, a few partition walls that double as pathways, and... that's it. If one just removed the rocks, there'd be a ton of open spaces, making the sight lines even longer and base control ever more prominent. Instead, why not make more bases to the side in their place? Split up the "Limbo" base into two smaller entities, and duplicate that on the other side of the map as well. Oh, and don't forget the walls and such between those bases.

Solace: See, I actually like this map for the most part. The "clutter" you speak of around the map is than nothing. Around the bases, I would keep the clutter for the sake of disrupting movement and providing some medium between the wide openness and close quarters of the base. The clutter on the outsides, though, could be easily made into walls that function better for tightening sight lines on the outsides. Speaking of the outsides, I think the lower elevation of the flanking routes is beneficial against people holding out in the bases or along other high-altitude spots. The paths are ridgedly designed, functioning as walls. If anything, those huge long paths need some more cover. This way, people protecting the outsides of the bases can't kill without having to track opponents, which right now makes it stale to flank from anything but the center basement (if you're talking CQC weapons).

Abandon: It's better with small team/no team games like Team Doubles, Flood or FFA/Regicide, where positions don't become mighty fortresses that determine the outcome of the game. Otherwise, the concept downright sucks. I don't think it should be in the playlist, to be frankly honest.

 

[Ariel Morgan]

I'm surprised Complex didn't get thrown in the mix. There are so many flaws with that map that one could make an entire thread upon it. Or Harvest being in the 4v4 Slayer playlist.

Complex has it's issues for sure, it is certainly not a "good" map, but I think there are other maps that suffer more than it does.

Vortex: Yes, there are too many rocks -- BUT! Not enough walls. The map contains three bases, a few partition walls that double as pathways, and... that's it. If one just removed the rocks, there'd be a ton of open spaces, making the sight lines even longer and base control ever more prominent. Instead, why not make more bases to the side in their place? Split up the "Limbo" base into two smaller entities, and duplicate that on the other side of the map as well. Oh, and don't forget the walls and such between those bases.

Well, this is certainly correct. The way I see this is that you can open things up (see where they go, and reassess), or you can create a better more consistent flow with the walls you make.
I notice a trend in Halo 4, rocks over walls. Jagged inconsistent edges vs walls. There are a lot more "rocky" surfaces overall, and replacing some, simply with walls and more consistent surfaces, would alleviate eye pains (fugly maps) as well as certain gameplay issues. A wall is easier to base tactics on, than a jagged rock form is.
You guys think about the best halo maps ever, and how many of them had rocks... everywhere, also think of how many were "cluttered" with random stuff in high combat zones?

Solace: See, I actually like this map for the most part. The "clutter" you speak of around the map is than nothing. Around the bases, I would keep the clutter for the sake of disrupting movement and providing some medium between the wide openness and close quarters of the base. The clutter on the outsides, though, could be easily made into walls that function better for tightening sight lines on the outsides. Speaking of the outsides, I think the lower elevation of the flanking routes is beneficial against people holding out in the bases or along other high-altitude spots. The paths are ridgedly designed, functioning as walls. If anything, those huge long paths need some more cover. This way, people protecting the outsides of the bases can't kill without having to track opponents, which right now makes it stale to flank from anything but the center basement (if you're talking CQC weapons).

The clutter is a mess. The map is a mess. Limiting movement in a high combat zone? Why?
Can you imagine trying to have a BR duel on the pit and there were things just in your way? Yeah, that would suck.

Right now the map has the potential, but they did a bunch of things horridly wrong IMO. They stem from an attempted symmetry that they decided should have variance, but that variance is just a nuisance when it comes down to balancing the map. Then you have the center of the map being a light, which is totally annoying and pointless, along with the basement existing (4 entries into a... lift room... that lifts to, the middle of the map? No thank you, I don't ever want to be there).

Now I agree that sides of the map being raised would create a little greater power for the central and sniper points on the map. I would have coupled the flank raise with a reduction of sniper vision from the perches (adding walls to the sides, creating a bit more safety, as well as a lack of vision, and a need to actually step into danger to allocate targets). There would also be taller walls, as well as a lack of general front of base clutter.
I would also fix the red base... but that is an impossibility at this point. I honestly never vote for this map ever, and I hardly ever see anyone voting for it.

Abandon: It's better with small team/no team games like Team Doubles, Flood or FFA/Regicide, where positions don't become mighty fortresses that determine the outcome of the game. Otherwise, the concept downright sucks. I don't think it should be in the playlist, to be frankly honest.

Agreed 100%

Thanks for the thoughts!
What are your least faves?

PS - Do you know where we can get an overhead view for the remainder of the maps??? Sadly not all of them are in the OP link...

 

[RogerDodger]

What are your least faves?

PS - Do you know where we can get an overhead view for the remainder of the maps??? Sadly not all of them are in the OP link...

Least faves are probably Complex, Harvest 4v4, Abandon, and Vortex.

I would presume you're looking for the Forge overviews. Sadly, I don't think anyone's made them yet.

 

[evergreen948]

My least favourites would be complex, vortex and meltdown
Favs are abandon, longbow and haven

 

[a ninja samuri]

i love abandon its an amazing map i cant see whats wrong with it and solace is growing on me and i think it is a pretty cool map
but as for vortex i completly agree looks cool but just doesnt flow well

 

[Ariel Morgan]

i love abandon its an amazing map i cant see whats wrong with it and solace is growing on me and i think it is a pretty cool map...

Could you provide some sort of explanation for this?

Or it's just "an amazing map" after everything I pointed out about it?
Same for Solace, seeing as I cannot continue to play that map to even care for it.

 

[Parker Melnyk]

I'm not sure what maps i hate but i like haven

 

[PandaMan]

I don't know any maps except for Haven, I like Haven.

 

[a ninja samuri]

Could you provide some sort of explanation for this?

Or it's just "an amazing map" after everything I pointed out about it?
Same for Solace, seeing as I cannot continue to play that map to even care for it.

i might have a bit of a soft spot for abandon because it as the first map i ever played and i have recieved 38 kills in one game for infinity slayer and otherwise its a pretty cool map any way i mean its really cool for flood, odball and slayer its got cool lights and a lift in the trees and it plays pretty well.

as for solace you gain more interest for it when you read the description and actually look at the asthectics for a bit it actually is giving power to a
dying star toprevent it from exploading therfore killing them all the star actually looks really cool and there are two other solace systems.

 

[Ariel Morgan]

i might have a bit of a soft spot for abandon because it as the first map i ever played and i have recieved 38 kills in one game for infinity slayer and otherwise its a pretty cool map any way i mean its really cool for flood, odball and slayer its got cool lights and a lift in the trees and it plays pretty well.

So it's a "really cool guy" map.

as for solace you gain more interest for it when you read the description and actually look at the asthectics for a bit it actually is giving power to a
dying star toprevent it from exploading therfore killing them all the star actually looks really cool and there are two other solace systems.

I don't think I should judge a maps balance on how "cool it is".

Although the story may be cool, it's quite an annoying map, the same holds true for Abandon. The designers literally Abandon it.

I don't know any maps except for Haven, I like Haven.

Honestly, after playing with some better players, I am begining to dislike Haven too...
So many ways to die while just trying to get somewhere.
There are a lot of sightlines no one takes advantage of that are just so annoying.

I really want to see that competitive playlist so I can get to work.

 

[Albreich]

Well if one is that better player he probably thinks haven is da bomb. Out of all the maps i believe haven is was the best design. I would like to see that list also. I mean even though Reach used lvls from campaign at least they worked and could always be turned into a competitive arena.

 

[a ninja samuri]

So it's a "really cool guy" map.


I don't think I should judge a maps balance on how "cool it is".

Although the story may be cool, it's quite an annoying map, the same holds true for Abandon. The designers literally Abandon it.

Abandon is balanced its got good ordnance and is fair for both teams as for solace it could be a bit more balanced but its still fun

 

[MockKnizzle]

Vortex is actually one of my favorite maps. I think that a lot of people forget that vehicles are a huge component of the map and a lot of the structures are designed around that. The driving paths are really interesting and dynamic, and there's some nice integration between the high-traffic vehicle circuits and the infantry paths while still allowing for protected flanking maneuvers.

I like Abandon for similar reasons, just minus the vehicles. While top lift is certainly a good position, both forests offer plenty of cover for flanks around the sides and the bottom connections are incredibly handy for quick dodges and escapes.

Now, Solace? There's one I'm not a very big fan of. My number one gripe is the lift: it's simply not intuitive, it doesn't provide any positioning advantages, the bottom lift room is awkwardly designed, and as a LOS-obfusticator (it doesn't actually block anything) it's just annoying and ineffective. Apart from that, I just really dislike the scattered-box approach to cover. I far prefer maps with some logical purpose for their cover structure (like Countdown, High Ground, The Pit) as opposed to a bunch of random blobs to hide behind. I also think they missed the mark with the asymmetry. I actually like cave base a good deal, because it's decently complex and has lots of nice opportunities for flanking attacks. The other base, though, compresses all those useful side paths and takes away the raised side entrances, which really ruins it. While I don't think the map in its current state could ever be called good, if the UNSC base was designed similarly to the cave base and the lift was made to suck less it would at least be solid.

Nobody has really mentioned any DLC maps yet, so I might as well. I really really enjoy Wreckage, and I think it's one of the best maps in the game at this point. It essentially feels to me like a map truly designed around the H4 sandbox. It has plenty of varied sightlines that allow each of the primaries to be effective in certain areas, as opposed to a map like Ragnarok that is clearly not designed with the range and accuracy of the DMR in mind, and it also has plenty of interesting verticality. Hogging is also tons of fun, thanks to the well-crafted driving paths that are surprisingly smooth and intuitive for how tight they are. I think there's a bit of a metagame aspect to hogging as well, since people tend to pack frags for the tighter infantry-focused areas, and when they do pack plasmas (which is usually when I have about 20 gunner kills) they're notoriously bad at sticking something they can't see coming from a mile away.

 

[FREEDOM COBRA]

I like all but one map, Exile. I just hate the look, that the tank isn't closer to red base, and the F'in middle cave of shittyness. My favorite maps are: Ragnarok, Abandoned, and Wreckage.

Also, I gotta defend Solace. I like the clutter because it helps fit with my close range style and I actually have only been in the basement twice so its easy to ignore. This falls in line with my tendency not to vote for complex just because it doesn't favor CQC.

P.S. last thing, Every Halo should have a Blood Gulch remake.

 

[FatThe2nd]

1: Solace. WAAAYYY too much scenery in the way, its insane. Bases are compacted with nooks and escapes (its like a halo 2 map), and of course the pointless basement.
2: Ragnarok (yep, i said it, comeatme) its just too damn open. The problem with this map is that it has... nothing! take away the hill in the middle, all you got left is a river and a pelican.
3: Shatter. Just a weird map in general, campy sniper areas, and random rocks. However, every halo game has that ONE weird DLC map, so i really do not mind.

 

[Albreich]

Duh its open, same thing could be said about Hemorage from Reach. except Ragnarok has a freaking enormous hill. Perhaps its your play style, my brother says he hates the map too and dies a lot because he thinks he's Rambo. Try playing the map a little more slowly. You might find your KDR to be a little higher.

 

[MockKnizzle]

Comparing Ragnarok to Hemmorhage is retarded, cause Hemmorhage was even worse!

 

[Albreich]

Thats what I was doing. Im saying Ragnarok is a step up from Hemmorhage.