Halo Designing default settings for Halo 5's standard Gametypes.

[S0UL FLAME]

Alright, I want everyone's opinion on this. Suppose H2A has multiplayer, and it's basically the same as it was before. It's all super fine and dandy, but that means that Halo 5 is going to have to build off of that multiplayer instead of H4's, unless they want riots in the streets.



This is my opinion of what they can do to fix most of the problems they, along with Bungie, made.



MOVEMENT

I believe the movement should be a tweaked version of Halo 2's mechanics. The speed of the spartan should have a 10% increase, and the strafe should be more crisp and responsive. Weapon switching should be slightly faster than normal to promote interesting gun-play on a confrontation. Crouching and Gandhi-hopping should be a bigger factor in making a good strafe.

Oh, and no sprint. At all. Ever.

WEAPONS

The Battle Rifle should not have spread. The Carbine should not have spread. The DMR must have lower aim assist when using the scope. The Light Rifle must have lower aim assist when using the scope, and have a faster rate of fire when unscoped. The Assault Rifle in Halo 4 is the best iteration. The Storm Rifle should have less bloom. The Suppressor should have less bloom.

The Magnum should be a five shot kill to the head. The Plasma Pistol primary fire should kill in at least 9 shots, and have less spread. The Boltshot's primary fire should kill in seven shots; the secondary charge should only take out 75% of the shield.

Frags should have a 10% increase of blast radius, and a 10% decrease in damage. Plasma grenades should have a 10% increase of blast radius. Pulse Grenades should have a 20% increase of nonstop damage while in the damage zone.

The aim assist should be decreased to a point where it takes more skill to get a perfect 4 shot, 5 shot, 7 shot, etc.

LOADOUTS

All players are given only two loadouts. They can have a Battle Rifle or a Carbine as their primary, and a Magnum or an Assault Rifle as their secondary. They can only have Frag Grenades. Plasma and Pulse Grenades must be found on the map. The DMR and the Light Rifle must be found on the map.



ARMOR ABILITIES

The abilities are all now pick-ups on the map. When you die, another player can take your AA and use it. Not all maps will have every AA to choose from; some will have regens, some will have thrusters and jet packs, etc. If the AA is not picked up after thirty seconds, it will reset back to its original position.

POWER-UPS

Overshield gives three extra shields but decays 10% faster. Active Camo reverts back to a power-up. Speed Boost gives the player a 50% increase in all forms of movement, and will have more control of acceleration and stopping. Damage Boost will have a 50% increase in damage, along with having a 20% melee lunge increase.

ORDNANCE

I think that the strongest weapons on the map should have an indicator over them that shows up once for twenty seconds, and then never shows again. The rest of the weapons in the map will be placed in the traditional weapon spawn. Despawn is 30 seconds



I believe these settings can be used for all the standard gametypes of Halo 5. The competitive settings will only need to disable radar and loadouts.



Please discuss what you think of these ideas.

 

[Psychoduck]

These proposed settings would go a long way towards taking Halo back to its competitive arena roots. Good work.

 

[-Orzium-]

I like everything you have mentioned but the light rifle can go. There should be three loadouts, DMR, BR and CARBINE. To make the game more interesting and realistic, SPRINT should be in.... but most of all a good ranking system needs to be implemented, in order to create a replay value to halo 5. No game modes should be dropped and more new game mods should be added....

 

[Psychoduck]

I like everything you have mentioned but the light rifle can go. There should be three loadouts, DMR, BR and CARBINE. To make the game more interesting and realistic, SPRINT should be in.... but most of all a good ranking system needs to be implemented, in order to create a replay value to halo 5. No game modes should be dropped and more new game mods should be added....

The two-loadout system with BR and Carbine starts is preferable to a three-loadout system. This is because the BR and Carbine allow player's customization options in accordance with their playstyles, but both weapons are in tune with each other. Both have similar range and kill times, it's primarily their rates of fire and their damage per shot that differ. The DMR, on the other hand, far outstrips both in range and accuracy making it a more sensible choice as an on-map pickup. Pickups needn't be limited to power weapons, and having players customize their loadouts on the field rather than in a menu prior to spawning is preferable because it encourages design based around risk vs reward. Not allowing players to spawn with DMRs would also allow classic maps such as Valhalla which are segmented by distance rather than line of sight to be viable in the game. As long as players can spawn with DMRs, all maps will need to be segmented entirely by line of sight due to the extreme range afforded by the DMR. This is why Hemorrhage and Ragnarok were each broken in the sandboxes of their respective games.

Making the game more "interesting" is not an acceptable basis for making changes to a sandbox. Similarly, any argument about realism holds no grounds in a discussion of a Halo sandbox because Halo is not about realism. Instead, let's look at the ramifications of the inclusion of sprint on gameplay. Sprint encourages movement which is not skillful. A core concept of movement in Halo is the ability for players to engage in combat while on the move. This is best seen in Halo's jumping mechanics, where players can engage each other while jumping through the air. Sprint does not follow this formula. It forces players to make a choice whether to engage or to move, but this choice requires little commitment as players can hop in and out of sprint so quickly. The one benefit sprint has on gameplay is the capacity for sprint jumps which brings a variety of new movement options to the table. This is why I would propose an ability akin to Thruster Pack as a default movement option for players. This would allow for the same sort of jumps that sprint does, but the use of this ability would work directly into combat, allowing people to enhance their strafing and jumping abilities while engaging others rather than allowing them to get from point A to point B faster or allowing them to run away from engagements. A lack of sprint will make players movement choices more meaningful as they won't be able to back out of engagements as easily.

A ranking system, while important to any new Halo game, is not part of this discussion. This thread is about default settings, or sandbox design.

 

[S0UL FLAME]

Sprint is something that shouldn't have appeared in Halo in the first place. Instead, it should of been an Armor Ability akin to Speed Boost, that increased your base movement speed for 3 seconds before charging 7 seconds later. It would be picked up and used at a crucial moment where swiftness can achieve an awesome clutch, or used to outflank or surprise an enemy. When activated, it would emit a distinct sound that a smart player would hear and prepare for. This, to me, is much cooler instead of the latter where Sprint is a simple minded concept for simple minded gameplay.

 

[-Orzium-]

Dux, I know that is your opinion and everyone can have theirs but I think it would be only fair to include all three weapons to initial loadouts. Saying that BR and carbine are at of same level isn,t true. The BR power, and it's semi auto mattic characteristics are way different from the simalarities between carbine and DMR except range. As for sprint I didn,t really classify what game or it should be in. BTB and game types 5v5 or more should include sprint in order for traversing maps easier and quicker. Game types such as normal slayer, flood and a competitive game type (mlg) shouldn't,t have sprint. At the end of the day everyone has different opinions and mine is a s valid as yours physcoduck and soul flames.

 

[Psychoduck]

Dux, I know that is your opinion and everyone can have theirs but I think it would be only fair to include all three weapons to initial loadouts. Saying that BR and carbine are at of same level isn,t true. The BR power, and it's semi auto mattic characteristics are way different from the simalarities between carbine and DMR except range. As for sprint I didn,t really classify what game or it should be in. BTB and game types 5v5 or more should include sprint in order for traversing maps easier and quicker. Game types such as normal slayer, flood and a competitive game type (mlg) shouldn't,t have sprint. At the end of the day everyone has different opinions and mine is a s valid as yours physcoduck and soul flames.

Obviously the BR and Carbine could be tweaked to be more completely in line with each other as we are talking about a new game. The similarity in the range of each weapon is of critical importance, and this is what separates the DMR from the other two. Having the DMR as a pickup only increases the potential for risk vs reward and eliminates the problems the DMR brings to the table as a starting weapon in terms of map segmentation. You are also mistaken in saying the BR is a semiautomatic weapon, as it is a burst fire weapon. While the Carbine and the DMR are both semiautomatic weapons, the massive disconnect between the optimal range of each weapon is what separates them. Having a BR and Carbine which are perfectly in tune with each other as starting weapons and a DMR as a pickup is indeed preferable to offering all three as starting weapons for the reasons stated above and elaborated on in this post.

As for sprint, you are again mistaken in separating BTB and Squad settings from other competitive settings. Despite Halo 4's best efforts to prove otherwise, playing with balanced settings will show that BTB is every bit as competitive as other player counts. Sure, Halo 4's offering of chaotic moshpits laden with heavy vehicles and power weapons with a focus on lone wolf play is quite far from competitive, but BTB when done right is merely another avenue for competitive players in a Halo game. The inclusion of vehicles within the sandbox adds dimensions to BTB play which are absent in other modes in terms of operating and countering vehicles. As someone who has been studying the design of Halo games for years and focusing on BTB play, my above post regarding a replacement of sprint with a thruster pack-esque ability stems directly from this. Sprint does allow infantry to move faster, making it easier to balance infantry and vehicle travel times. However, a well-designed BTB map will balance infantry and vehicles without the inclusion of sprint. Again, the replacement of sprint with a default thruster ability maintains the primary benefit of sprint (sprint jumps) and removes its many problems while adding further dimensions to strafing and movement-based combat in general. Also, keeping consistent settings across all modes is important, having something like sprint available in some modes but not others is not only wholly unnecessary but would create a divide in the community.

Lastly, attempting to devalue an argument based on experience and backed by logical support by comparing it to your opinion which is lacking in both serves only to Mariano's phone is broken. We're planning to meet in Alden at 6 on the second floor by the Macs. I have a room reserved for 6:30 also. detail the following.

• Provide a detailed explanation of what benefits would be brought to the table by including the DMR alongside the BR and Carbine as starting weapons and weight these benefits against the consequences such as the inability to segment maps by distance and the ignoring of potential for risk vs reward that would stem from this inclusion.
• Provide a detailed explanation of what the benefits of sprint are and weigh these against its consequences such as it not being both a movement and a combat mechanic and its tendency to make player choices less meaningful.
• Provide a detailed explanation of why these benefits of sprint would be superior to the benefits of an alternate thruster pack-esque default movement mechanic.

Any rebuttal which fails to explain the points ordered in the above list and do so in an explicit and detailed manner will ultimately fail. If your opinion is that you like being able to use sprint and the DMR by default, that is perfectly fine. However, that opinion without being backed up with logic is merely an opinion and holds no value in a discussion like this. Everyone has opinions, but stating them with no support is pointless. You can state that you like something or don't like something, but that is meaningless unless you can detail exactly why you do or do not like it and what about it you do or do not like.

 

[-Orzium-]

Sorry dux, your point is always valid above others isn't... By the way it isn't an essay it is a forum post. Opinions are opinions....

 

[General Sarbina]

I am in agreement with Dux. We need a movement option like sprint, yet different at the same time. A roll or evade tactic would work nicely I think. It would allow players to move quickly in a small distance. The only problem I can see is that they make the roll too slow. Then it would not accomplish what it was meant for and would be rarely used. Having the body position change relative to height is important. The thing I see a lot when using the thruster pack is the head doesn't change it's height much if at all. So all people have to do is move their bead over a bit and keep firing. Not to mention the thruster pack is slow and people can keep up with you.

Another thing to consider would be how we want the roll or evade tactic to work. Do we want it like in Reach when you had two rolls then it had to recharge? I have an idea. Hear me out. Above I was just talking about how it could be too slow. But let's say for instance we have unlimited roll ability, like in many third person games. The first roll could be quick, allowing you to break the enemies sights on you. But as you continue to roll, they become slower and slower. Or maybe a very well thought out combination of the two.

Now here are my thoughts on the Battle Rifle. Get rid of it. Completely and totally. It is not as "competitive" as people think it is or make it out to be. It is excellent at long and short ranges. What would be more competitive is forcing the player to decide do they want a ranged weapon (DMR) or do they want an upclose weapon (AR)? This would force players to play a certain role and would work well, providing that the magnum doesn't have a scope (in my opinion).

 

[ShockBolt21]

Now here are my thoughts on the Battle Rifle. Get rid of it. Completely and totally. It is not as "competitive" as people think it is or make it out to be. It is excellent at long and short ranges.

I agree with this. I cannot believe that people have not yet realized how overpowered the battle rifle is. I don't think its removal is completely necessary though- it can easily be toned down with a few tweaks.

Additionally, I'd like to share my opinion on frag grenades.

There have been so many times when I've been all set up for an engagement. I'd be close to some cover, my storm rifle is in hand and ready, I've planned an escape route if necessary. I'm aware of the surroundings and everything would be all planned out. At this point, I'd be ready for my opponent to turn the corner so we can duke it out.

But instead of the opponent himself, a grenade would come floating around the corner. Before I can react, it hits the ground at my feet and explodes. The second grenade is sufficient to break my shields. At this point, I throw down my pulse to cover myself and run the hell out of there, but I am not fast enough to escape the enemy, who casually turns the corner and places a few battle rifle rounds in the back of my shieldless head.

Frag grenades are not competitive. If they were, there would be a way to better counter or react to them. They explode so fast that, if one lands anywhere near you, there's really nothing you can do but either abandon your hard-earned position and try to get away, often placing yourself in a more vulnerable position, or take the damage- losing your shields and risking death. They can be easily bounced off walls to reach players behind corners or around obstacles. There are rarely ways to position yourself such that you are safe from frags, but can still get a firing position on the enemy when they come into sight (because of this, even if one is prepared for the possibility of incoming frags, it's still difficult to effectively counter them while not losing his ground or falling behind in an engagement). All the upgrades available to make grenades more powerful only makes this worse. Additionally, the fact that players spawn with two frag grenades or only one pulse grenade is terrible, especially considering the fact that an individual frag is more useful, versatile, and easier to use than a single pulse.

Frag grenades completely ruin engagements, and should be toned down.

 

[General Sarbina]

But instead of the opponent himself, a grenade would come floating around the corner. Before I can react, it hits the ground at my feet and explodes. The second grenade is sufficient to break my shields

Frag grenades completely ruin engagements, and should be toned down.

I think what should happen is the ability to carry only one frag at a time. Still enough to flush someone out but not enough for an easy kill.

 

[-Orzium-]

I am aware of the power behind the BR and how much powerful it is in halo 4. I know where your going with the frag nades but in some instances they can be extremely tactical and can be used to bloke hard routes on maps for seconds which can in some cases be a matter of winning or loosing a game. One thing about frags that I personally hate is the notion of having two of them to start off with. The amount of times I have been panic added as someone is about to die is astonishing. You should only start with one frag as only one frag can't kill you if you have full shields but two just screws up the whole system.

 

[Psychoduck]

I would like to point out a common flaw in arguments on this sort of topic which is present here. The word "competitive" gets thrown around a lot without its meaning really being understood. For many, the term has become a buzzword, an attempt to label concepts they do not understand. In this thread, for instance, items such as the BR and frag grenade have been called "competitive" or "not competitive". There is a flaw in these statements. An item cannot be competitive in and of itself. A basketball is not competitive. However, basketball as a sport can be. What is trying to be said here is how much skill something takes to use and how balanced it is. If an item requires skill to use and is balanced against other items in the sandbox, the sandbox as a whole will allow for competitive play. This is an important distinction to be made in any discussion about the Halo sandbox.

 

[Sgt x Slaphead]

"Gandhi-hopping should be a bigger factor in making a good strafe." Honestly I think Gandhi-hopping is a ridiculous tactic that shouldn't even be a thing. Having to give my thumb an injury to avoid shots should not be a requirement to survive when playing people that do it. I swear the game is too laggy to even keep up with their hit box as they repeatedly shift around and it just seems plain stupid. Spamming the crouch button while jumping is skilful? No. You can keep crouch jumping by allowing players one crouch between jumps but I find it wrong that this is considered some skilful tactic. It is a bizarre movement that punishes people who are not comfortable with the necessary control layouts or simply do not enjoy mimicking a frog. Strafing and crouching is fine but hopping around spamming the crouch button seems stupid to me. It is not a hard tactic to learn but I think the game is nicer when you can simplify it to strafing, jumping and crouching but combining jump and crouch in to a weird spazzy manoeuvre is just bitchy!

I hate to sound like someone just complaining and I suppose you could argue it is more so of an issue in Halo 4 with combined with flinching but the first time I encountered people using this tactic I thought they were lagging. When I learned this was considered a genuine tactic I thought it was a complete joke.

 

[Sgt x Slaphead]

I think what should happen is the ability to carry only one frag at a time. Still enough to flush someone out but not enough for an easy kill.

Start with one frag yes. I think we should still be able to carry up to two but I would like to see a slight increase in the fuse time.

 

[Sgt x Slaphead]

"Overshield gives three extra shields" I like most of your suggestions I really do but three shields!? I thought what is basically the temporary invincibility that comes with Halo 4 overshields are bad enough. Halo 3 had a good solid 2x overshield which generally worked out fine but 3x overshields sounds pretty damn powerful. I am biased to this since I never found overshields all that fair but if you are to have them I think anything more than 1 additional shield is a little bit too much.

Asides from that I like your ideas.

 

[Sgt x Slaphead]

Sprint does allow infantry to move faster, making it easier to balance infantry and vehicle travel times. However, a well-designed BTB map will balance infantry and vehicles without the inclusion of sprint. Again, the replacement of sprint with a default thruster ability maintains the primary benefit of sprint (sprint jumps) and removes its many problems while adding further dimensions to strafing and movement-based combat in general. Also, keeping consistent settings across all modes is important, having something like sprint available in some modes but not others is not only wholly unnecessary but would create a divide in the community.

Why sprint pisses me off? It is known in scientific terms as a nasty cycle of fucked logic:

-Make maps bigger because of sprint.
-Add sprint because of bigger maps.
-Make changes for the sake of changes.

The root of a problem is often quite simple.

 

[General Sarbina]

I would like to point out a common flaw in arguments on this sort of topic which is present here. The word "competitive" gets thrown around a lot without its meaning really being understood. For many, the term has become a buzzword, an attempt to label concepts they do not understand. In this thread, for instance, items such as the BR and frag grenade have been called "competitive" or "not competitive". There is a flaw in these statements. An item cannot be competitive in and of itself. A basketball is not competitive. However, basketball as a sport can be. What is trying to be said here is how much skill something takes to use and how balanced it is. If an item requires skill to use and is balanced against other items in the sandbox, the sandbox as a whole will allow for competitive play. This is an important distinction to be made in any discussion about the Halo sandbox.

Valid point. I'll play along. To me the BR is perfect for almost any engagement. Whether it is up close or at a bit of a distance, it has good accuracy and a good rate of fire. At a range, it does just as well as the LR and DMR and up close it keeps up with the AR, STORMRIFLE, and SUPPRESSOR. So what would be the point in using those weapons if you frequently get outgunned by the BR at the range your weapon excel's in?

 

[General Sarbina]

And I guess the same thing applies to the CARBINE

 

[S0UL FLAME]

Bumping this thread because of the announcement of Halo 5: Guardians. Feel free to discuss more.