Hey guys! I just wanted to drop by and, first of all, to commend you both on the effort you've put into this map. It's very well polished and is an all-around impressive example of what can be achieved in Forge. We tested this map out this evening if you're interested in hearing some feedback and seeing some gameplay from players in the lobby. Most of it is stream of consciousness, but I think there are some solid nuggets of feedbacl to take away from it. We begin the game on this map at about 2:00:20 in the stream linked below.
Thank you Duck for letting me see this, I showed it to weeeeemann and we have had a few discussions concerning the map. Let me first talk about the desired game play. This map is inspired by big maps such as Altar, Sandtrap, Viking, Waterworks, Sidewinder, etc. I love Halo 5 and I have enjoyed some of the old school feel that 343 has brought back to us. Our mission, is to do justice to that. Ancestor's game play is meant to be more of a tug of war style with some options. The semi protected bunker bases are thought up on a sidewinder type feel by having them somewhat separated. This map has gone through many redesigns and 15+ personal playtests with also being in quite a few other playtest lobbies as well. I must say I was a little surprised some people thought the map was too big. I have gone into every map currently in matchmaking and have done my own version of extensive measuring each map, and setting up a sheet that shows how many vehicles, spawns, weapons, etc. in each map in order to try to get a stronger understanding and feel for the map. Ancestor (in my measuring and outlook) is currently smaller than Viking, Altar, and Deadlock. Though a few decisions we made with the map may have tightened some paths in comparison to the bigger open maps that I mentioned previously. Ancestor's pacing is not as fast as Eagle Square, Boulevard, and a few others in matchmaking, but more closely an attempt to capture the medium to fast gameplay that is offered in Viking and Altar.
My perspective of what I see the community asking for when I look around at the different sites and forums leans towards more vehicle gameplay in BTB, so we set out to give that a go. The design of the map has seen many upscales, downscales, facelifts, redesigns, and well over 150 hours of work from weeeeemann and I each. We had a decent start, but knew the direction of the map needed to change and we had too much on the map originally. We have received such a positive response for making a map based on such an iconic structure in the Halo universe! We have really looked at all feedback and watched our testing videos over and over.
I appreciate the feedback and I have a back up map where I will be playing around with a few ideas that I caught out of the video, definitely some solid "nuggets" of feedback as you put it. I can see some of it for sure, I respect quite a few people that were in that lobby and again I will be looking at a few comments I caught. As far as the size, I did see that you guys started with 15 people and ended at some point with 14. I guess despite my fear of saying this, I do challenge you and the guys to give it another go.
I watched the feed a few times and was very happy with what I saw, the medium fast pace that I wanted to achieve. However, the more we have playtested the map, the more I am finding CTF to be the weak link now. Slayer feels a bit faster and usually ends in under 8-10 minutes and Strongholds is similar to that with fair teams.
We are looking at a few things to tweak this map and I would enjoy any more feedback. Some things we are looking at would be:
-Cleaning up the cave area from the bases to the Control Room just a bit so that is a little more clean, but still hosts a solid route that will be somewhat safe from being pinned down by a strong team holding the Control Room structure.
-Adding a Mongoose for each side which will give players another option to get around the map a bit faster and make CTF have a needed additional option.
-Taking another look at the weapon layout for anti vehicle. Though the map does host a Spartan Laser, 2 pairs of Splinter grenades, a Splinter Turret (detached), 2 attatched plasma turrets, 2 Plasma Pistols, Hydra Launcher, and the fun Gravity Hammer. We have had mostly positive feedback for the weapon balance, but are still trying to watch our play tests for anything that seems too powerful, not powerful enough, or just irregular.
-Spawning was all but removed from the middle structure at one point, but we might add a bit so the spawning isn't so base heavy, there are currently only 2 spawns on the middle structure, a few outside of it, and many at the bases.
As far as the size of the map, again we feel we did capture that larger scale feel, but I am still open to the idea of small modifications, but I think the mongoose and possibly another man cannon placed well could help, but I want to see it just with the mongoose first. Ancestor to us is more than just what we hope is a good map. Ancestor to us(me for sure) is the embodiment of Halo 1-5, honoring some of the larger maps that I loved and miss to promote that old school feeling with a new school blend. It is even in the art direction as we have attempted to cleanly blend the different Forerunner styles used over the history of the game. When people load the map for the first time, they usually try to point out whether or not it is the Halo 1 or Halo 3 control room, but the answer is... just yes. There were many control rooms. In conclusion, my hope for Ancestor and my overall feeling of the map is that it does recapture the larger maps of old, with new elements brought in with H5, and to create an experience that is mostly different every time you load up the map! I have tested this with BR starts as well, but I must say by doing this map for the MYM contest and doing a lot of playtests that require mag/ar starts, I love how the magnum plays on this map and some of the others that I am recognizing for the contest. This has been an exciting experience for us! Thank you for this information and I appreciate you reaching out to us! If you have any suggestions yet, I am all ears! I do want Ancestor to be the best it can be.
