Wow! The forge maps in MCC!

[BlazeDillon]

I'm very impressed with the quality of competitive maps coming out of the MCC already! The original ones I've played have set high standards. And the remakes of previous forge maps hold up well being even more stunning than ever! Playing better and looking better than before by a long shot in the H2A engine!

Since there's no fileshare browser and such, I'd love to get some of you on my friends list to show me and play your maps! Keep pumping out these great maps guys!

GT: Whos Blaze

 

[zombievillan]

Gettin me all excited. I will be getting the xbone soon! Can't wait to get back into forging & having high quality tools to do it.

 

[Stevo]

I don't think I'm alone here... but I don't believe the MCC Forge maps are all that great. They have barely any additional pieces, and the scripting (like 90% of the game) is buggy.

I've also found that despite the new console's vastly improved hardware... there's still stupid limitations when it comes to creating Forge Maps. I find it extremely easy to use the entire object count when just making a small map.
I also tried to make an outdoor medium sized map, and it suffered large framerate drops, as well as exceeding object count in certain categories.

I wouldn't say this is very much an improvement over Halo 4 or even Halo: Reach's forge modes. The only additions is the new skybox maps, and a few minor tweaks. The biggest addition would be the scripting category (which is a good idea... just poorly implemented).

Maybe I'm expecting too much? I've spent my entire childhood playing games that were progressively getting better and better and better... and it wasn't just marginally better, it was categorically better. But after Reach, Forge just hasn't improved in my opinion. It's exactly the same as it was 4 years ago, and that isn't good.

 

[ThisIsNotTheNSA]

Gettin me all excited. I will be getting the xbone soon! Can't wait to get back into forging & having high quality tools to do it.

Same boat as you. It should be here December 4-8th.

 

[ShockBolt21]

I don't believe the MCC Forge maps are all that great...

I was actually very pleased with how the new forge turned out, from the moment I started playing it. The terrain pieces, the scripting, and all of the new tools and additional pieces make this forge vastly different from any other.

I don't think that the scripting is buggy at all. When first experimenting with it, I had expected the system to be inconsistent like some of the "advanced" settings could be in the previous games. However, once you understand the system, everything works fluidly and logically, every time. There may be some delay if you're building a more complex system that, for example, triggers several different objects across multiple channels. But it will always work- the system was implemented just fine, but for this one issue.

I too have noticed some frame rate drops and performance dips in forge mode, but I actually think that this is mitigated in custom games. I have forged a tremendous outdoor map, using huge amounts of the terrain pieces and long sight lines (so many objects are being rendered at any given time). While there is some lag and red on the performance bar when looking down from some areas in forge, there are actually no from rate drops when playing on it in a custom game.

The object count would be just fine (in my opinion) if certain objects, including spawn and objective objects, switches, and timers, did not count towards your 650. But they do, and thus you're right that the object count is quite restrictive.

Keep in mind that Halo is still focused around relatively small sized maps, so you shouldn't really expect to be building anything on a Battlefield-like scale in the game.

To summarize, I'm not sure what exactly you were expecting, but the new forge does seem categorically improved to me.

 

[rayner]

I don't think that the scripting is buggy at all. When first experimenting with it, I had expected the system to be inconsistent like some of the "advanced" settings could be in the previous games. However, once you understand the system, everything works fluidly and logically, every time. There may be some delay if you're building a more complex system that, for example, triggers several different objects across multiple channels. But it will always work- the system was implemented just fine, but for this one issue.

Agreed.

 

[Stevo]

I was actually very pleased with how the new forge turned out, from the moment I started playing it. The terrain pieces, the scripting, and all of the new tools and additional pieces make this forge vastly different from any other.

I don't think that the scripting is buggy at all. When first experimenting with it, I had expected the system to be inconsistent like some of the "advanced" settings could be in the previous games. However, once you understand the system, everything works fluidly and logically, every time. There may be some delay if you're building a more complex system that, for example, triggers several different objects across multiple channels. But it will always work- the system was implemented just fine, but for this one issue.

I too have noticed some frame rate drops and performance dips in forge mode, but I actually think that this is mitigated in custom games. I have forged a tremendous outdoor map, using huge amounts of the terrain pieces and long sight lines (so many objects are being rendered at any given time). While there is some lag and red on the performance bar when looking down from some areas in forge, there are actually no from rate drops when playing on it in a custom game.

The object count would be just fine (in my opinion) if certain objects, including spawn and objective objects, switches, and timers, did not count towards your 650. But they do, and thus you're right that the object count is quite restrictive.

Keep in mind that Halo is still focused around relatively small sized maps, so you shouldn't really expect to be building anything on a Battlefield-like scale in the game.

To summarize, I'm not sure what exactly you were expecting, but the new forge does seem categorically improved to me.

Well that's exactly the problem... we've got loads of massive pieces, and yet hardly any intricate pieces we can use for detailing.
We have a small amount of objects we can utilize to make things look different. In the 4 years this Forge mode has come out... every map is the same piece combinations redone. The textures are the only things making this whole thing start to feel slightly different. But as soon as you're used to the pieces again, the possibilities are no longer endless and you're sat with the same restricted Forge as before.

Believe me... All I've done is Forge and test piece configurations, Script, and build. There are bugs in Scripting... You just might not notice them in Forge mode. For example, Triggers cannot be powered off... they're permanently on, despite the channel you set the Power Channel to being off, they're still active - that's a bug.
Team settings don't always work, despite being on a particular team in certain gametypes... Like Infection having Attackers / Defenders... yet Attacker and Defender switches don't respond as such.

The biggest issue is that the game no longer has sprint. So all of these objects should have been scaled down in size to match the overall movement speed of players. I've struggled so much to create a layout where players aren't just running in open space with this Forge because all of the pieces are so much larger than required.

EDIT>: For Forge that's the biggest issue (Sprint should never have been in Halo), because it's the same piece designs as all the other games that included Sprint. The pieces aren't suitable for this style of play, and overall, we need a metric fuck-ton of new pieces to make maps from. We have to use about a dozen different pieces just to make a single wall so it's different and better than just a blank, flat, space. And with our object limits being so low, the most we can make is just a basic, small, undecorated map.

 

[PA1NTS]

My issue stems from a lack of contrasting pieces. Alot of competitive maps I've seen so far haven't made an attempt to address that either, besides adding natural terrain background/skybox to the map.

 

[ShockBolt21]

Well that's exactly the problem... we've got loads of massive pieces, and yet hardly any intricate pieces we can use for detailing.

I think that forge is oriented more around map functionality than close attention to details, and you may need to think more broadly outside of generic competitive maps to understand this. The problem with these maps is that they are really only defined by two things- their structure/geometry and their general aesthetics, the former of which is more important. And because the new forge does not provide players with the means to create more complex or advanced structures, you are right in that these competitive or arena maps may not benefit as much from the new forge. Maybe they could use a bit more variety in the available pieces (or the means to create more variety) to improve in the general aesthetics category.

But everything outside of this narrow category will certainly benefit from the new forge. Players will no longer be limited to putting together basic structures out of blocks on preset maps. Players can now create entire landscapes to use however they like. Players can make their maps interactive using the scripting system. They can make things happen on their maps. Players can better create unique and functional systems to enhance their creations. Maps no longer need to be stagnant and unchanging structures defined only by their geometry.

Because forgers can shape the land however they like, and because they can manipulate object spawning and response to player interactions, the new forge gives players complete control over their maps. Almost by definition, this means that the possibilities are increased and the restrictions are much less limiting.

Maybe there are a few bugs in scripting, but saying that the system is "poorly implemented" may be a bit harsh. Its fundamental functions still work fine, and the system itself is still very versatile and potent.

Sprint should have been added, or at least an option for it in custom games. You are right in that the scaling of the maps would be much more appropriate if players on foot could move faster about it, rather than being limited to walking. I also feel that it enhances the gameplay.


EDIT: The terrain pieces do give players the means to create more complex and advanced structures for their maps, including those in the competitive category, and this is a major jump from previous forges.

 

[ThisIsNotTheNSA]

My issue stems from a lack of contrasting pieces. Alot of competitive maps I've seen so far haven't made an attempt to address that either, besides adding natural terrain background/skybox to the map.

Agreed. I think the biggest innovation we could get in Halo 5 Forge would be different skins for each object.

 

[Madirate]

Ok I'll add you, I have a small team "Core" map that will be playable soon.

 

[rayner]

My issue stems from a lack of contrasting pieces. Alot of competitive maps I've seen so far haven't made an attempt to address that either, besides adding natural terrain background/skybox to the map.

That was my initial concern as well, but so far I,ve been able to make a map that looks far better than any I had made in halo 4. The rustic look really stands out if you can combine the metallic texture of some blocks and the concrete texture of others. I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. I do, however, tend to use less blocks and more of the other pieces; walls, bridges, platforms, and even decorative pieces look great and now cost the same as the blocks themselves.

I definitely rather these new blocks than the ones in Halo 4.

 

[BlazeDillon]

I don't think I'm alone here... but I don't believe the MCC Forge maps are all that great. They have barely any additional pieces, and the scripting (like 90% of the game) is buggy.

I've also found that despite the new console's vastly improved hardware... there's still stupid limitations when it comes to creating Forge Maps. I find it extremely easy to use the entire object count when just making a small map.
I also tried to make an outdoor medium sized map, and it suffered large framerate drops, as well as exceeding object count in certain categories.

I wouldn't say this is very much an improvement over Halo 4 or even Halo: Reach's forge modes. The only additions is the new skybox maps, and a few minor tweaks. The biggest addition would be the scripting category (which is a good idea... just poorly implemented).

Maybe I'm expecting too much? I've spent my entire childhood playing games that were progressively getting better and better and better... and it wasn't just marginally better, it was categorically better. But after Reach, Forge just hasn't improved in my opinion. It's exactly the same as it was 4 years ago, and that isn't good.

No, you are right about a good bit of that. MCCs forge itself isn't much of an improvement and obviously the lack of contrast is still there but the maps that people are making already even with the limitation are playing really well and still looking far better then they have before.

I'll admit, I was quite upset when I had to dumb down one of my maps A LOT when I was hardly exceeding 250 piece but I still managed to give it a decently clean and polished look. And it has discouraged me to build a little as well and frustrated me a lot but the work that I'm seeing some people put out is really impressing me.

 

[Stevo]

Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the effort and that they've included a new Forge. It's kind of expected now though, isn't it?
What I have a problem with is that it doesn't exceed our initial expectations, it actually falls very short. The scripting makes things seem amazing, and the demo was great... But we still can't create the maps, the landscapes, the ideas we actually have in our minds. Every floor, every wall, every decoration, sight line, spawn system is a problem we have to struggle through to create a dumbed down, blander, blockier map.

I'm currently remaking an improvised remake of Halo 3's Guardian. You have no idea how hard any part of that map is to Forge even slightly accurately because the pieces aren't available. There are no circular pieces (ignoring the two ramps and the dishes) no trapesiums, or any type of quadrilateral shape beyond square or rectangle.

There are countless things that should be resolved and the easiest way to resolve them would be to provide a list of thousands of objects; each that differs in shapes and sizes... And to provide players with the ability to reskin them accordingly.
Terrain needs a lot more adding to it. The shapes of these existing pieces make absolutely no sense...

Better yet, Halo 5 should have an optional map creator as additional priced DLC so Forgers really can create what we try to do when entering Forge...
Without trying to be so negative, it's a huge let down being told "No" repeatedly as I enter Forge and try and create something I think people might enjoy.

 

[Mental]

I'll add you as well. On Stevo's point there are some odd performance issues with what seems like a fairly small number of objects given the new hardware. From now on i'll stick to smaller maps if they aren't significantly terrain based. With terrain you can get away with large spaces and decent visuals, but if your using blocks and walls you will run into framerate issues fast.

 

[ShockBolt21]

Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the effort and that they've included a new Forge. It's kind of expected now though, isn't it?

True.

Every floor, every wall, every decoration, sight line, spawn system is a problem we have to struggle through to create a dumbed down, blander, blockier map.

True.

Terrain needs a lot more adding to it. The shapes of these existing pieces make absolutely no sense...

Very true. Looks like you have a very good point.

However, nobody really expected the inclusion of a forge for Halo 2, much less one that improved (in my opinion, significantly) from previous forges, so you can't really say that it fell short of expectations. Also, trapezoids and other quadrilateral shapes can be made from the existing pieces- it's something that forgers can do themselves, and have been able to do quite well so far.

 

[Stevo]

Also, trapezoids and other quadrilateral shapes can be made from the existing pieces- it's something that forgers can do themselves, and have been able to do quite well so far.

I can make the shapes, just not to the scale I want without using about 10 different tiny pieces collectively.

The forge items should have been down scaled to match the game's speed.