Lobby Recap Recap for Competitive Testing Group Lobby 9/4/13

[Psychoduck]

This is the recap for tonight's Competitive Testing Lobby. Post feedback for the following maps below.

1. I Com Ober Da Hows by The Psycho Duck (6v6 Dominion map on Forge Island with Bravo Scorpion)
2. Aerolith by RegrettedKarma6 (6v6 Dominion map on Impact with Bravo Scorpion)
3. Embark by Flying Shoe ILR (Asymmetrical urban map on Forge Island, played One Flag CTF and Extraction)
4. Rogue by Squally DaBaenz (Asymmetrical Longshore-inspired map on Forge Island, played One Flag CTF)
5. Traxus by Squally DaBeanz (6v6 Conversion map on Forge Island)
6. Linchpin by Wraith2098 (Inversely symmetrical BTB map on Forge Island, played Multi Flag CTF and Extraction)
7. Workhorse by bloodyfang4korn (Symmetrical BTB map on Forge Island, played Team Slayer)
8. Kallisto by Johnny023 (Symmetrical map on Forge Island, played Ricochet and Lockdown)

I'll write up my feedback tomorrow. Keep the feedback as constructive and thoughtful as possible. Thanks to everyone who came to the lobby. I will keep you guys updated on my plans to make this into a recurring group lobby.

 

[Psychoduck]

Flying Shoe ILR, Squally DaBeanz, wraith2098, Iloveforging!!!, Jonny023, Vientus, Tomtris, DeathGodzilla, labrat14,

 

[Skyward Shoe]

OK SO HERE'S THE FEEDBACK:

HOWS: Besides the one time where we all spawned in C with an enemy tank outside the map played pretty well. B is very dynamic now and plays much better, and holding alpha-charlie also felt very viable.

Aerolithe: Bravo felt like it was too high up and had too much control over the map. It is similar to Longbow in some ways but unlike Longbow it doesn't do much to limit Bravo's power over the rest of the map. There were also few good infantry routes around the map that weren't exposed to most of the bases. The banshee was hard to counter when only holding one base. I would suggest lowering and limiting Bravo, giving more routes into it, and generally giving more infantry-only routes between the bases. ]

Embark: Owaitdatsmahmapnebermind.

Rogue: This map is playing really well for 1 flag squally, though it definitely still suffers from some of the same things Barky does (flag is hard to pull but easy to cap, rarely gets stopped after it is pulled about halfway across the map.) But this is something that seems to be inherently an issue with 1 Flag in Halo 4 and it's not a big problem, just a preference as to how an ideal game would play out.

Traxus: This version felt a lot better, though A definitely needs to be in more of a defendable position than in a route that can be moved through. I know it's only been 1 game, but I feel like a large portion of the map was only very thinly used right now. We'll look into it more later.

Linchpin: Very cool map Wraith, I loved how structural everything felt. Your structures really looked like they could support their own weight. As for the gameplay there was nothign that stuck out to me as bad besides maybe the extraction nodes, which you already said you were going over.

Workhorse: Workhorse had a good start but fell into the trap a lot of Forge Island maps fall into, flatness and disconnected areas. Besides the base roofs and a few structures the entire map took place on one flat plane. With no height variation to help break up lines of sight, the map was either a set of long fields or maze-like CQC areas. By making the map hillier and giving lots of ups and downs LOS can be broken up without having to resort to building a maze. Interconnecting areas a bit more will also help segment the map more and allow players to move across the map without just being shot, an issue that caused Red team to sit in their base for most of the game.

Kallisto: Ricochet was a lot of fun on here, it wasn't super hard to make a throw but it was a challenge to get a run, and in the end it really required teamwork. Lockdown was better than normal, the map adding strategy that the game mode doesn't normally feature. I hate Lockdown but that was certainly better than most.

 

[Psychoduck]

My feedback:

• I Com Ober Da Hows: I heard a complaint about spawning in one particularly open area, and a complaint about there being bumps at the tops of some ramps. Both of these will be addressed.

• Aerolith: I would be inclined to agree with many of Shoe's points. I liked the vehice set quite a bit, however, with how high up Bravo was, the banshee felt much more useful for countering and holding Bravo than the mantis did. In general, Bravo did feel very powerful, and this resulted in our game being rather static. Getting from Alpha to Charlie was difficult, as was pushing Bravo. Still, this was after only one game and the teams were a bit imbalanced. I would still advise looking into this RegrettedKarma6.

• Embark: I'm really happy with how flag has been playing here. Auto-pickup has made throwing bodies on the flag a lot more viable than it should be, as we talked about. Still, I would say that this is probably the best One Flag experience in Halo 4 as of right now. As for Extraction, I didn't get to analyze all of the sites' placement, but from whta I saw they were all placed in sensible locations. I do think that switching the way the spawns work would be great for Extraction, though. The static spawns made the game a bit static (cwutididthere) and it was frustrating trying to get an objective with the enemy team spawning all around you.

I'll finish my feedback when I get back from class.

 

[wraith2098]

• I Com Ober Da Hows by The Psycho Duck - I enjoyed this game and jet pack running across the top of the map never gets old hehe. I noticed more flow around the map than the previous test, but that may have been due to the teams knowing the map better. Brovo still feels a bit cramped. I don't think you can open it up much more, but if you can expand the floor space that would be nice. I think we all got a good look at what a skilled sniper can do on the map. A good sniper can shut off Scorpion flank and force the apposing team to make an organized push to clear the sniper out. The Scorpion wasn't too big of an issue, but I would keep an eye on player spawns while watching the video. There might be a few spawns that could use more cover.

• Aerolith by RegrettedKarma6 - I tested an early build of this map and the version we played last night was a big improvement. Scorpion seems to work well, not over powered. The Mantis vs Scorpion vs Banshee battles are pretty awesome. There were several issues that came up during the test. Bravo towers way above the entire map. Its difficult to overtake and has massive lines of sight over Alpha and Charlie. I would recommend at least using some rocks to create large walls blocking lines of sight towards Infantry heavy paths specifically the paths leading up to Bravo from Alpha/Charlie and the paths leading to the central structure across from Bravo. I also heard my team mates mention there were too many SAWs on the map. That weapon was making base pushes extremely difficult.

• Embark by Flying Shoe ILR - Capture the Lag was brutal. Not the maps fault though. I do think Red base could be expanded a bit. The previous version of the base on Reach worked very well. It was big and had multiple paths leading to the flag. I feel like it will be too easy for a good team to shut down flag room in its current state. Extraction was a lot of fun, played very well for its first test. Obviously the spawning needs a bit of tweaking but the extraction points were well placed and defending each point was very challenging. I really like the weapon/vehicle set on Embark. The Sticky det is a nice addition as well. One of my favorite elements of the layout has to be the Sniper battles, always a lot of fun.

• Rogue by Squally DaBaenz - Capture the Lag turned its ugly head again unfortunately. Still played very well. I like the flag location, its not too hard to pull the flag but running the flag can be very challenging. I've noticed in most games on Rogue that pulling the flag is a battle all the way to the finish line. Not too many issues at this point that I've seen. Maybe you can look at making the flag capture point easier to read like we discussed during the game. Because the flag is so far underground it is hard to tell exactly where the point is and its not easy to see the capture plate. I wonder if using the blue light from an extraction cylinder on the floor would work?

• Traxus by Squally DaBeanz - This version is a huge improvement over the original build. I think most issues were covered during the game/post lobby. I would say moving Alpha to the inside of the room is a good idea. I think Bravo should be moved further away from Charlie. I can defend both Bravo and Charlie from the same platform. There needs to be a control point for Bravo that has no affiliation with Charlie. I think Taxus is playing pretty well otherwise, not a whole lot of issues so far.

• Workhorse by bloodyfang4korn - I know you are a new forger so I won't be too harsh. Workhorse had some fairly clean forging, but the design was lacking depth. There were a lot of open lines of sight and no segmentation from one section to another. I think you need to take a look at several of the maps from forgers you were in the lobby with last night and take notes from their building techniques/map layouts. Look at how they cut off lines of sight with their structures, the vehicle paths they design, the segmentation between each section of the map, etc. Its always nice to see new forgers and I would love to see you continue to pursue forging. Good luck!

• Kallisto by Johnny023 - Ricochet actually played better than I expected. I think being able(sirthomas) to throw the ball into the goal right off ball spawn might be an issue, but I think a good goal keeper can intercept the pass pretty easily. Lockdown/Stronghold played well as usual. Still having the repetitive spawning issue from before, so anti spawn zones over each side spawn of the map should help with that. Not much else I can think of. You got a very good map here, Johnny. Well done sir.

 

[Psychoduck]

Here's the rest of my feedback. I find myself in agreement with most of what Wraith and Shoe have said, so I'll try not to be too redundant.

• Rogue: This is playing rather well. The driving paths are good, as are the other routes around the map. The flag location as well as the capture location seem very good. It is worth noting that players tend to have trouble finding the capture point, though. That's because it's in the middle of a big open area, so players who aren't really paying attention have an easy time getting confused there. As Wraith said, making it a bit more visually obvious would help.

• Traxus: As Shoe said, Alpha's placement is currently rather awkward. As far as the closeness between Bravo and Charlie is concerned, here's how it works on Colony. On Colony, as the objective moves, the positions surrounding them change in their function. While Bravo is active, the skybridge is the most powerful position looking over the objective. The platform in the back of the Charlie building is not particularly effective at countering players inside the objective. When Charlie becomes active, these positions sort of swap where the base platform becomes the most attractive point to hold. On Traxus, the platform over Charlie was the most attractive position while both Bravo and Charlie are active. Players should have to mve, change their strategies, and use positions differently between the phases, and that's not really happening yet on Traxus.

• Linchpin: I did like this quite a bit. Bouncing around the map in the warthog was quite entertaining. I didn't quite get enough of a feel for the map to comment on the overall design past the fact that it seems quite solid. The jump-ups using Dominion stripes felt a bit awkward, though. I need to play this more before I can say much else, sorry I couldn't say more.

• Workhorse: I think that Shoe and Wraith have covered everything. When forging a large map on Forge Island, it's extremely important to keep the map from becoming too flat, and creating interesting and interconnected structures is the first step to counter that. I would suggest looking at I Com Ober Da Hows and Linchpin for examples of how to avoid making a map on Forge Island too flat and disconnected.

• Kallisto: After playing the Entire FI Dominion game, I sort of slipped out of "testing" mode, and into "derp" mode a bit. This was also the first and only game of Ricochet I have played. For the Lockdown game, I was so busy having a conversation about the state of the Halo Community that I played on autopilot (and somehow went 14 and 7). However, I did notice that you've done a good job with the design as a Lockdown map. The terminal isn't in a location that can turn into too much of a moshpit, there's multiple positions worth holding, etc. Overall, I think you're on the right track with this one.

That concludes my basic feedback.

 

[Squally DaBeanz]

Well shoot. You guys seemed to have covered everything already, so uh.... Ditto.

Ok, real talk.

Hows: So far, things are looking really good on this map. I played defense most of it, so I cant say much about the middle of the map. The outer edges felt very good to move through, very safe. I also love the approaches to Alpha and Charlie. The only real complaint I have as of right now is, like I said in the lobby, some annoying bumps on the ramps. I don't know what else to say, other than maybe play around with possibly adding a small interior to the walkway between Alpha and Charlie, just to see what happens.

Aerolith: Again, I didn't see much of the map because I was playing defense most of the time (or get pulverized by the Banshee or SAW'd in half). From what I saw though, Bravo needs a major nerf, either in sightlines or height (preferably both). Some of the rock paths through the back seemed a little awkward and could probably be tweaked to be smoother and less cumbersome. Other than that, I'd say the only major issues may be how powerful the Banshee is and the number of SAWs on the map.

Embark: Things are looking REALLY good with this one Shoe. I'm gonna second (or third... or fourth) the general though from everyone of expanding Red base a little bit. The only other thing I can say is to maybe look into the spawns on Gold corner that look directly into Red's front door. There were several occasions where I grabbed the Lag, er... Flag, and was immediately being shot down by people spawning there, which made Gold feel like an invalid flag route. Besides that, I'm loving New Barky

Rogue: OHEMGEE BEST ONE FLAG EVAR WAY BETR THAN EMBARK!!! /sarcasm
Anyway, it seems the only big issue everyone is having so far is the capture point being hard to see, which will be addressed. I'm also going to keep an eye on spawns, just in case any more hiccups pop up.

Traxus: OHEMGEE BEST CONVERSION EV- ok I'm done.
Again, the only major issues people seem to agree on is that Alpha is trash (I agree) and that Bravo and Charlie share power positions. Both of these will be addressed.

Linchpin: What kind of name is Linchpin, Wraith??? Other than a dumb name (jk bro, hugz ) the map seems to be doing really well, especially after you brought down the knife on the connections from Gold and Green into mid. My only major complaint at this point is the spawns. Play around with the respawn zones a bit more for flag, because spawning around the corner of the ENEMY flag while you're trying to defend yours can be frustrating, especially when there's no clear diagonal path to intercept the enemy flag carrier.

Workhorse: Again, pretty much everything has been covered on this one. Here are my personal suggestions for this map (you don't HAVE to follow these, just how I would do it).
First, I would redesign the middle building. As it stands right now, it feels like a single room with clunky jumps across the top and blindingly tall grass through the bottom. Try raising the entire building, and more structure (less flat walls), and more complexity to it so it's not just a single room. Look at the middle of Linchpin as a good example. The outer buildings could use some work as well, as they're also a little too simplistic. Try adding more structure and complexity to these as well (just not as much as the middle). This would make the bases feel more like viable play spaces instead of just safe spawn areas.

The tower in the middle feels a little exposed and could use some better piece usage (sorry, but I'm a sucker for awesome aesthetics ) As for the hilly area in the back, I would try to add more varying elevations through there. Try making the hills go up and down a few times as you travel through it. On that note, try adding some hills made of the rock pieces around the entire map. This would help with the flat feeling and give players some terrain to use as cover when traversing the map. My final piece of advice is to improve the pathing for the Warthogs. This can be easily done by just driving around the map for a while. If something feels cramped or awkward, open it up a bit so the Hog can move through easier. Just don't let it overpower infantry paths, keep it somewhat limited.

Hope this helps!

Kallisto: Seriously, what's with these names you guys?
I've been watching this map evolve for a while now, and I like what I'm seeing. Definitely one of the better Lockdown maps out there. The only things I could see being better is making the platform where the Ricochet goals are a little bigger. This would not only allow for bigger goals, but less awkward transitions upward. It just feels a little cramped when trying to make that corner when running up the ramp off of spawn. Also, maybe add some rocks into the initial spawn fields if you plan on making this compatible with more gametypes.

/rantover